The Drought of 2010

By lordoflys
(5 votes) (report abuse)
From the summer of '04, could this be a sign of our future?

Yes. It's too early to predict disaster, but if not 2010 maybe 2011 or 2012. And none of the elected politicians with responsibility in this county seem to be sensing any need for action, or even preparation. It's politics as usual. While state and federal agencies have studied the Yakima River Basin nearly to death, very little action has actually occurred despite overwhelming  evidence that additional water storage has been needed for decades, that water has been over-appropriated, and that this need has grown exponentially.

What is at stake is the livelihood of thousands of residents who depend on agriculture and ag-related businesses. The efforts that have been spent on fish recovery and recreation-based businesses are also very much at risk. Declining snowpack and resultant surface water loss increases the threat of wildfires. Living things in the basin become stressed and many die. You know all this already. Then why hasn't there been any action?

The federal agency controlling water flow on the Yakima River is the Bureau of Reclamation. Irrigation entities rely on Reclamation to monitor and control water flow. These entities, like KRD, Roza, and KID and many more smaller water operations jealously guard their water from other water users (scores of local organizations sued to keep Roslyn from legally obtaining water, for example). As far as increasing the water supply itself? Well, other than a grass roots effort at Black Rock the local water people rely on the feds, without taking much initiative themselves.

The Preliminary Integrated Water Resource Management Plan for the Yakima River Basin is final. County Commissioners took part in these Arboretum talks. Didn't add much, but at least one of them attended as well as a few KRD people. The trouble is, this plan is flawed. Though additional storage is addressed, it draws out the planning, then funding, until the actual construction of this storage is put off for years, possibly decades, if ever. In other words, there is no sense of urgency. And, in the end, we shelve yet one more study of the Yakima Basin onto the pile along with the scores of studies that have proceeded this one. Studied to death.

It is interesting that the people who construed these talks and this study...and even the ones invited to participate in the actual meetings....all work for agencies of one sort or another. And that the ones most affected by water policy...farmers, ranchers, orchardists...were most notably  absent.  Call it what you want but to me it looks like agriculture will have to collapse before anyone pays any attention to this issue. I will say that the local politicians WERE quick to jump on the moratorium bandwagen AFTER the fact. Should we expect any more than this?

Farming, Water, and Foreclosure/For Sale byCleElum15 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I know this is an over simplified notion, ... but it's just too bad that a Willie Nelson Farm Aid kinda situation can't be done, even to the point of bringing these issues before congress like Willie and John Mellencamp did that culminated in Congress subsequently passed the Agricultural Credit Act of 1987 to help save family farms from foreclosure. O.K. ... I got my silly moment for the day over with and feel better now ... lol
RE: Farming, Water, and Foreclosure/For Sale bylordoflys5 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
CleElum, I think that is a wonderful suggestion. And one that would be so much appreciated and needed. Because that need is coming. And soon. Something like this, thought of out of the box, is right on the money.
We have got to do what we must to support family farming. We are all in this together and Kittitas County residents must find a way to get through this next crisis. And it's always easier when you know you have other people supporting you.
Could very well be. bywhatatrip5 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
IF we don't get some moisture soon, this could be the year that senior water rights holders hold permit exempt wells accountable by restricting or cutting off use. They do have the power and given the BS coming out of the BOCC and our local legislators, this might be the year the seniors let them know who has legal rights and who doesn't. It is too bad that the greed of the local "bottom fishing" developers have caused this to happen. Any developers with senior water rigths will have an overwhelming advantage over those who don't.

I've read through some stuff on the "super ditch" approach and it is way too late for that to be of benefit now and it may not be very workable in the future. The simple approach proposed that requires a purchase of senior water rights is both fair and simple.
RE: Could very well be. byJeremy5 months ago (8 votes) (report abuse)
That is a typical response from anyone supporting the moratorium. Simply complaining like these outside groups will not work anymore, that mentality is not needed. Purchasing Senior water rights is very costly and drawn out, ask the state they know. For the average person it is not a practical solution.

Its not to late for ideas to the so-called problem, there are a lot of ways and ideas to put DOEs main arguments to rest. Their use of the moratorium just happened to be the worst idea, it doesn't help anyone; senior water right holders, homeowners, or the county. It just helps the anti-everything groups.
RE: Could very well be. bywhatatrip5 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
So Jeremy, are you saying that you acknowledge the truth behind the underlying theory of the super ditch theory? Do you have any idea what the implication is? Think about it. "Super Ditch".

As for water rights for rural exempt wells. The County is responsible for making sure the quality and quantity of water are adequate. In order to assure quantity, they should be the ones purchasing water rights to cover all the exempt wells in the county. Cities and other municipalities have to cover their water consumption with a water right as do farmers. It is only fair the counties also be responsible.

It has been pointed out many times that this all started with a local "inside" group and supported by local groups. The only outside groups involved were asked to lend their expertise. The outside groups who want to steal water from senior water rights holders outnumber the defenders of senior water rights at least 6 to 1.

Your first hurdle will be putting to rest the claims of the Yakama Nation. We know what they will accept. How would you propose to mitigate their claims?
Anti-Everything Groups? byfishmonger5 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Lumping anyone who casts doubts on the sustainability of our water resources as members of "anti-everything groups" is a "typical response". Bring something to the discussion...data, comparable situations to other communities in the West having water issues, opinions or personal observations. For example, I work in the upper county and know a longtime landowner who has been experiencing discoloration in her well water for the last year and a half. She lives in an area where 11 wells have been drilled in the last 15 years. Coincidence? I'd be curious if anyone else in upper county has noticed anything unusual.

Please post to the Garry Owens threads if you just want to stereotype people who may have another opinion about an issue.
RE: Anti-Everything Groups? bymoonlightmile5 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
If Garry Owens is Larry Nickel, I can tell you from years of watching (and sometimes participating) in council meetings, that he has been concerned about water rights and water shortage for YEARS and is quite knowledgeable on the subject. As you would expect, he's been quite vocal on the subject as well.

Sometimes he makes himself an easy target but give the man credit where credit is due.
Water byJeremy5 months ago (8 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I havent looked to hard at the super ditch idea so I really wouldnt be the guy to ask, but at least its a better start than mortorium. And yes these anti everything groups only want mortorium, they have never presented anything positive to the discussion. Presenting data to support your complaint is one thing but just using the water issue to achieve your groups political needs is just dishonest.

County purchasing water rights to offset PROVEN curtailment would not be a bad start. Another good idea is drilling wells that arent extremely shallow, drilling past confining layers that seals off water addresses DOEs issues directly. It might take a few good ideas to create a great game plan, but any ideas that get away from mortorium are better than what the state has done.
Fresh thoughts on Fresh water? byLance5 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I have yet to comment on the situation that is playing out in Upper Kittitas County...and although some of my thoughts may not be that fresh, here are a few;
1. The majority of wells drilled in recent years are for lots intended as second homes. The average person moving onto these lots are not there on a regular basis and they don’t irrigate because they are not there to cut the grass, prune the shrubs etc. so consumption is very low.
2. The DOE doesn't have the funds to do a hydrologic study in the area and they hesitate to borrow funds because the Upper Kittitas Aquifer is unlike most others and it would be especialy expensive if not impossible.
3. We don't have one big aquifer like you find in text books. We have individual aquifers contained by basalt, granite, shale, sandstone and clay in most cases. Some are linked together but many are not. Ask any driller a simple question like "what depth do you anticipate to find water here?" and he is not going to give you answer because he does not know. He can pull up local well reports, look at the lay of the land, hire a water douser but predicting water is harder here then most places in the world because of our Cascades geology.
Go to the DOE's well log viewer and plug in a section, township, range and 1/4 search and you will see wells at various depths and yields going though material that in many cases don’t correlate even though the wells may only be 100' feet away from each other.
4. Ask the drillers or DOE just how many wells have been deepened in recent years in upper county...few and far between. And the wells that were drilled deeper are in areas that one would not be surprised if they went dry because it was shallow or on top of a dry ridge. I know their are exceptions and I know that parts of the Country and even parts of our State are having water problems but I just can't believe that Upper Kittitas County development has been halted because of speculation, threats of lawsuits and governmental disagreements.
Cat is out of the bag bywhatatrip5 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
It really doesn't matter at this point whether there is a moratorium or not from the standpoint of banks and smart people. Banks and people looking for property know there is a water problem and that senior water rights holders can call the shots. The moratorium could end tomorrow and what bank in its right mind would lend money for a home knowing that the supply of water is in doubt or could be cut off. The only way to assure availability of water is by holding a senior right to water.

It is true that many homes built in the UC are second homes. But to what extent can we depend upon that being the case down the road? The days of living the high life are over. Most of these homes were speculation homes, homes used as investments or retirment homes. The speculation bubble has burst, homes as an investment is a bust and baby boomers will be selling their primary residences and moving into their retirement homes or vice versa. I predict there will be less second home/vaction home activity in the future and many more will be living in those homes.

The Yakima Basin really is one big ditch. DOE could do a study and find areas that will not impact stream flows immediatlely which would result in some areas being more likley to not impair. Where ever those areas are, they will have to be recharged and if it takes years to recharge, that means less flow to other areas while they are recharging. The study could show that there are areas of water that are not connected to the larger system and that they depend upon recharge. In those areas, development would have to be limited so comsuption doesn't exceed recharge.

The Yakama Nation's stand is that any withdrawl not mitigated is impairment. We could challenge that in court as was done with surface water rights. How well did that work out? Litigation has been going on for more than 30 years. The last 10-12 years there has been no new water rights. I suspect the same would happen if ground water was challenged with the exception that there would be no new exempt permits allowed until the study is complete. That brings us right back to where we are now. We have a moratorium on all non mitigated withdrawls.

I could be wrong but the simplest and easiest and less costly course would be the water bank route or, if I were younger and had lots of money, I would start my own company buying and selling rights to water. Or I could also lease and lease out rights but I would definatley want the government making some ground rules that I could depend upon.
KVtalks System Test bywhatatrip5 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
This is a test of KVtalk. Comments to Letters to the Editor are not working and there have been no comments here for a couple of days.

Again, just testing.

I see that it works.
RE: KVtalks System Test byAureliux5 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Hi 'trip. Yeah it does appear to be working now, I tried to log in a couple of times Thursday PM but it kept booting me out.

Have to wonder if this is going to end up on the web site main page again?

Letters to the editor have always been rather dicey here. Now it does appear that you have to be a paid subscriber to get anything to post after the news articles.

Wish I'd kept a list of the ones I wrote that were never published.

A.
RE: KVtalks System Test bymoonlightmile5 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
Just testing. I was booted out as well. I preferred the old format.
RE: KVtalks System Test bylordoflys5 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
Whew...Finally got on the thread but can't get into the paper...And a lot of water related issues to discuss.
RE: KVtalks System Test bycountrygirl115 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
Ditto. here now and yes there are some issues. I think you just have to register and then you can comment on the news articles. Have not tried yet, it's on the 2do list. I do hope the powers that be return KVTalks to the home page of the DR. So hows the snow pack?
RE: KVtalks System Test bywhatatrip5 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
I can get to the newpaper's free edition here:
http://dailyrecordnews.com/news/

It allows you to look at articles that are on the recent headlines. But there are no comments on the articles.

Also from the front page ( http://dailyrecordnews.com/news/) you can go to the opinion section, "B" section, "Sports", ect. But there are no comments for anything that I can find there either. I know that there were lots of comments on letters to the editor but none have shown up; they don't seem to have them attached yet.

I think anyone can register for the free version and get access to letters to the editor. If I remember correctly isn't there a log in for KVtalk?

There is also a VIP logging. I can log in there using my online account that comes with my subscription to the delivered newpaper. Looks like it still uses the old Olive Software format. It allows you to flip through the whole paper page by page. It is not working real good either.

It is all a bit confusing. Hopefully on their front page they will give some instructions and information in the Breaking News section - Welcome to our New Website.

And yes, there are some new articles about water that are very interesting. Seems the 163 acre feet of water is enough for 2037 new homes if used only for domestic purposes but if they are to water 1/2 acres of lawn also, the 163 acre feet will only allow 600 new homes.

I know from my own watering, I use about an acre foot of water for each 1/2 acre of lawn or pasture.
Comments??? byCleElum15 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Between the articles of:

Suncadia offers water to offset Upper County wells
http://www.dailyrecordnews.com/news/article_78474206-1804-11

Kittitas County pulls occupancy permit from Suncadia Home
http://www.dailyrecordnews.com/news/article_9da41b7c-1873-11

Both of which have "NO" comments(totally amazing to me) as well as none of the Letters To The Editor having any comments, I'd say there is something wrong with the system.

I registered, logged in, and posted comments the other day but have yet to see my comments posted.

Been just waiting to see if anything ever has a comment posted on it. So far, it seems that only KVTalks is posting comments ...
RE: Comments??? byAureliux5 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Oh, comments. Yes it appears that to now comment on the regular news stories it's required to be a registered VIP member as in subscribed and paying rent to comment?

Thought at first that pertained to the TALKS section but that now does not appear to be the case.

Something went haywire with the news story comments for me a while back. Would get the message that it was under consideration for posting, then they'd never come up. So I quit.

And here I am!

A.
RE: Comments??? byCleElum15 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
well .... that sux, ... gotta pay(VIP)to post an opinion on the regular news ... no wonder there are soooo many comments posted, no one can afford to with such a robust economy ...

Good thing we can still post here on TALKS section or it'd get as quiet here as it has in the regular news section.

Your comments on news stories in the past may have ended up in the vast-void known as the "spam round file".

Guess if the regular news has anything worthy of posting on by the "NOT-VIP'S" it'll show up here ...
Snowpack and water levels bylordoflys5 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Well, because countrygirl11 asked, here's today's report:

Storage is 92% of average (1981-2005).
The NRCS Snotel sites are reporting 69% of average in the upper basin and 87% in the lower.

We could use a big, nasty 5-day blizzard.
RE: Snowpack and water levels bycountrygirl115 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
a blizzard ABOVE 3000 feet. I'm ready to garden not shovel and move snow around. 'course if we don't get more snow my gardening could be limited to due early shut off of KRD irrigation water. Thank you, lord' for the up date on the snow pack.
RE: KV Talks System Test and Comments byIngmar5 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
You do not need to pay to be able to post story comments at www.DailyRecordNews.com. That was just one of the issues we had to work out as we migrated content from our previous Web site to our new site. You do, however, have to register — FOR FREE — to be able to comment on stories ... just as you do here.

The VIP registration on www.DailyRecordNews.com is to allow full access to the complete print version of the paper via PDFs. Only about 20 percent of the paper's content is ever posted to the paper's free Web site.
RE: RE: KV Talks System Test and Comments bywhatatrip5 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Will previous letters to the editor and comments to those letters to the editor be posted and/or accessable?

I see that there are no comments for any of the letters to the editor prior to the ones now posted.
RE: RE: KV Talks System Test and Comments bycountrygirl115 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
I tried to register, followed all the steps and supplied all the required information. The site indicated the registration went through but when I try to log-in the dialog box that pops up says there is no account in that name.
RE: RE: KV Talks System Test and Comments byAureliux5 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Things still do not seem to be working quite right, the FREE REGISTRATION for news comments must still be misfiring but I'll give it another shot tonight.

Got the FACEBOOK pic links up OK on the front page, have to wonder why that one little paste job for KVTalks won't stick too?

A.
RE: RE: KV Talks System Test and Comments byIngmar5 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
I'll have our techs look into this. In the meantime, try using your KVtalks sign on and password and see if that works.
RE: RE: KV Talks System Test and Comments byCleElum15 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Ingmar,
I tried using my username/password from KVTalks first to log on, but it didn't work. I had to register, but it worked and logged me on.
Comments byIngmar5 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Our techs are checking into restoring the comments on previous stories that were lost during the content migration.
RE: Comments bywhatatrip5 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
One of the nice features of KVtalks is the statistics in the upper right hand corner of the page that gives us some "posted" data, how many "veiwed" the post and how many commments were made. That information would greatly enhance the "letters to the editor" section as it might any other sections and articles. The number of hits to a particular page is pretty easy to incorporate.
RE: Comments bymoonlightmile5 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
I've been waiting for the pending "confirmation by email" of my registration. It's been several days and so far nothing.
RE: Comments byIngmar5 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Moonlightmile's issues with signing on appear to have been fixed. Please let us know if you encounter other issues with the site.

Thanks,
In defense of development bylordoflys5 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The upper county exempt well moratorium is essentially just an indication of the new reality facing water users from Roza to Easton. Those with water subscriptions dating back before May 10, 1905, the majority living south of Roza Dam, are content to watch the unfolding of the first water war knowing that sooner or later even senior rights holders will be vying with each other for seasonal water. Groups such as the American Land Rights Association are easy to discount, owing to their "anti-anything that resembles liberalism" approach and history shows us that government stewardship of public lands and resources, though flawed, works better in the long run. The history of irrigation in the Yakima Basin is the best case in point.

The papers are full of short plats and other land use changes including the resurrected Marian Meadows PUD in Easton. This development would add up to 443 units on 520 acres. It may be a last gasp effort on behalf of the landowners to grandfather future development opportunities. I'm all for it, if they can meet compliances. Developers will be as rare as Dolly Varden Trout in the upper county in ten years. Real Estate people will have less "inventory" but the value of homes with, yes, senior water rights wells, will explode eventually. Don't fight this or other attempts by landowners or developers to do what they can at this late date. We all would do the same, and the long term consequences of what is occurring in the UC, though not well understood now, will be much more restrictive in the future. We can only speculate what the future will bring but this is why someone invented science.

To a great extent, though, we are still masters of our own destiny (and I'm borrowing some metaphysics from Aureliux here). Let's allow developers and land owners the opportunity that will be denied them shortly. Forget about protecting the "environment". What is left of the "environment" will be protected in perpetuity by the Washington State Bar Association. And there will be a shift in location for "environmentally deprived" western Washington residents who feel a need to build 2nd homes in sunny Kittitas County. Me? I'm buying up all the Vantage property I can.
RE: In defense of development bycountrygirl115 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Unless the developer has senior water rights the City of Easton which annexed the property at the request of the developer does not have enough water to service that many homes. If you read the DEIS the septic system the developer plans is, in a word, crap. Further, the drainage for the area runs down slope to the city drinking water well. Then there's all those homes the developer wants to put right in the airport runway approach zone. Since the county has not done the airport over lay it is required to do the developer feels houses can be built there, the FAA doesn't think so. Any attempt to mitigate for wildlife will be useless, the DEIS states all the alternatives will eliminate most of the wildlife habitat. It's a bad idea.
RE: In defense of development bylordoflys5 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Countrygirl11, I take it, then, that you are against this particular project? And excuse my ignorance, but are there even 443 homes in Easton now?
RE: In defense of development bycountrygirl115 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
I'm not against developement. The zoning there is rural 5. If the developer wanted to create 104 5 acre parcels I would not have a problem with it. This county does not need more housing developments, what is on the ground at this moment has not been built out and there is over 2 years inventory of homes on the market.
Read the DEIS.
RE: In defense of development byJeremy5 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse)
Its funny how the same people who are against property rights are also against development, building, and drilling wells. Do you guys understand that if a builder wants to create lots that comply with the county regs that its their investment, not yours. After a while the anti-everything attitude just sounds like whining.

People need to have the ability to build on their property, have jobs related to building, and have their own water supply. Our county's economy is connected to all of these.
RE: In defense of development bycountrygirl115 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Read the DEIS just issued for the Marion Meadows project - if the developer can mitigate ALL the major problems addressed in the DEIS then he should be allowed to move forward. It may mean he will not be able to cram as many homes into the 520 acres. This is the kind of development that the county was found noncompliant with per the GMA. Just because there is a stay does not mean it is right to ignore the laws of physics, install a septic system that is flawed, eliminate wildlife habit and expect a city to supply water to a project it does not have. Under your thinking it is apparent you feel anyone making an investment in land has a right to recoup their investment. There are serious water quantity and quality issues with this project.
RE: In defense of development byClem5 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
In light of the collapsing real estate market and the total over supply of lots available from Sapphire Skies and other developers I wonder why the Easton developers want to move forward. Between Cle Elum Ridge, Roslyn Ridge, and Suncadia there has to be at least a 50 year supply of lots available for building and sale.

I am with Countrygirl11 in that I am not against development, but before we make the same mistake in cutting up Easton Ridge why not use the current inventory of lots that have already been developed. On top of that shouldnt we be encouraging development into these areas that can be serviced with modern water, sewer and natural gas? Nothing could be better than have 100-200 homes being built annually from the existing supply in and near Cle Elum and Roslyn. I think its really wishful thinking that we are going to be able to develop and sell more lots in the Upper County. If someone wants to do a little research drive out to Ocean Shores which still has an abundant supply of lots that were developed 50 years ago.
1977, 2001 and 2010 bylordoflys5 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
These years are all strikingly similar in some unfortunate ways...first and foremost '77 and '01 were severe drought years. 2010, as warm as it has been (have you noticed?) and with a current insufficient snowpack, looms potentially as nasty as these. What happened in 1977 and 2001...and will in 2010?

1. Salmon smolts, without sufficient water flow, get stranded and die. Fish and Wildlife and the Yakama Nation have, historically, come to the aid of salmon and steelhead during times of drought. I might add that they never get enough credit for their sacrifice and hard work. They are really, really, good at what they do.

2. Wheat, timothy hay, and cattle are the most seriously affected agricultural areas affected. In 2001, 25,000 acres of orchard crops were also taken out of production. THIS YEAR could mean in excess of One Billion $ in wage and production losses. Easily. Human anxiety and suffering cannot be measured in units.

3. Hundreds of forest fires could burn thousands of acres of our Ponderosa Pine forests. During the '77 drought 194 forest fires were reported. "The Thirtymile Fire", by John Maclean, should be required reading for all Central Washington State High School seniors. If you are a resident of Kittitas County you should read this book.

4. Expect the DOE to immediately suspend the upper county exempt well moratorium as soon as drought conditions are announced officially by Gov. Gregoire. Soon after, a number of emergency well permits will be granted...I estimate 200 to 300.

These are all viable prophesies, based on historic facts. What can you do?

Look at the way you use water..or more specific, look at the way you WASTE water. We all do. And it is the most precious of all our natural resources. Water your plants with the dishwater. Get rid of your lawn. It just attracts the dog next door. Put in native plants, stone, gravel, sand. Thats what Kittitas County is made of. It remains to be seen what Kittitas residents are made of. My guess is that we get through this stronger and smarter.
RE: 1977, 2001 and 2010 bywhatatrip5 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
In our dry climate, the only kind of home that would work without a lawn would be a mud hut. Dirt and dust are not harmful to mud huts and they can't burn down nor are they expensive. However, if you are going to live in a conventional home in this dry climate, you will need a lawn to control dust and to act as a fire break. If you let the land "go natural" you will have tall grass that has to be cut for fire protection. Mowing a fire break is extremely dusty without green grass. I have neighbors who don't have water rigths, they mow and that mowing creates huge dust clouds. It take a lot of water to wash all the dirt off their bodies also. They have a terrible time with dust in thier homes.

The American way of life requires huge amounts of resources. My guess is ... this "crisis" is a Sunday picnic compared to what lies ahead. Of course, global warming or climate change could just as easily bring us a lot more precipitation. It appears that is the trend with California getting it this year. When we get it, they don't and vice versa. El Nino at work. We should always plan for the worst of times and be thankful for the best of times.
RE: 1977, 2001 and 2010 bycountrygirl114 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
I understand this is one of the strongest El Ninos in 50 years. If we get no more snow pack for the winter I won't be doing any annual flowers. Which means cover the flower bed with mulch and NO WEEDING - yeah - no fun colors tho. Since I grow most of my vegies I am concerned about an early cut of of my irrigation water. I am conceerned for all our cattle and ag folks not just in Kittitas County but thru out the whole basin.
Oh, A Mud HUT! Yes... byAureliux4 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
So you rang my out of this world non typical metaphysical bell on that one, so here I am to comment. While I'm not an expert on these, I would like to please be allowed to attempt to politely wax on, somewhat eloquently on this fine subject.

There has been a big problem in this state getting financing approved for alternative building methods. I have heard that it is getting better. Once had heard a rumor that that do with something about large timber interests having a bit more than their share of representation, most of us were permanently stuck with conventional western style stick frame construction.

Other locations in this fine world of ours have not had this problem. And there are some really good m u d h u t solutions out there.

Have time to poke around searching for things if you are interested look at the rammed earth construction experiments in Australia. I found it fascinating. Plus they are fire proof and extremely well insulated because of their thermal mass AND can be made to withstand occasional wet humid weather without structural degradation.

Another fine concept that sort of fits the bill for good ecologically sound home construction is underground. I got to visit and tour some of these in Montana. May not be good for everyone, but I thought it was a fantastic solution.

BUT my all time favorite and what I think is fantastic is the straw bale concept. Not exactly mud hut ideology but it actually has some of the same basic concepts of extreme thermal mass. AND if they are done right they are ALMOST fire proof.

And I do know about dust and the problem of mowing to create a safety zone on land that isn't irrigated. Has anyone else ever seen a swept sand Japanese garden? Stacked stone sculpture? Erect cast masonry designs?

Our local stone and gravel company has a pretty good course unwashed sand. I spread it around about 4" deep in the fall. Weather hit it, figure the moisture drove the fine parts of it deep. Rest did not blow away. Didn't look bad, and I used some large drain gravel to edge it with. No mowing, no fire problems and it actually looked better than letting everything be half wild and whacked back into semi submission.

This water thing still has me somewhat puzzled in our county. I can understand the snow pack difficulties and surface water shortage and rationing of irrigation water. BUT when I checked into all this years ago and had my tanks set up, I found I could still get truck loads of water for irrigation no matter what was shut down and rationed out. SOMEONE in town still had water rights and a set of ponds that they could pump out and deliver out of, and they did. It cost me around $250.00 for a full load. Could get a load of clean water suitable for in house use for a little more, charged per cubic foot because it came out of the city supply.

Looking at how much water is blowing down the rivers from rainfall that can't be captured I'd think it would be to all of our best advantage to get on the band wagon to propose more water storage for irrigation.

But that is just my own humble little opinion.

Have seen the cherry trees, they are ready to bud. It's too early, going to be one whale of a frost battle this spring.

A.
RE: Oh, A Mud HUT! Yes... byJSmith4 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Thanks you for your input on these. I've seen some of the underground home constructions myself - they're pretty amazing. It could only be a benefit all the way around to allow more alternative construction methods, rather than mandating strictly stick built. Not only can it be far more cost efficient, environmentally friendly, and safer as you mentioned - but aesthetically, there are some amazingly beautiful and creative alternative buildings out there, some made from completely recycled materials like tires and bottles; and like the undergrounds - they not only "blend in" to the environment, but they preserve the vegetation. I would love to see these types of projects happen in our county. Moreover, I would love to see more community involvement like has been done with local straw bale buildings; maybe workshops of a sort for our youth, so they can have something to "build" upon for their future. (pardon the pun).
On other alternative building materials... byAureliux4 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
One of the best that made a lot of sense to me was level cast concrete tilt up construction. Never seemed to be able to get it approved for home construction though. Apparently it was too efficient and much less labor intensive to build that way. When I researched it way back when, the bottom line I found was that I could have a concrete house but it had to be cast in place and no one would loan any money on it.

But they can be insulated and can also perform well as thermal mass against extreme heat ranges.

Plus, anything that doesn't ever have to be painted or patched is a serious advantage.

Once saw a decent simple proposal for a two story pentagonal structure with what they called a drop center wagon wheel style suspension supportive roof and ceiling. At least that is what I think it was called, it's been over 20 years. But it was built all interlocking and everything supported each other piece which by itself was self supporting so it was virtually earthquake proof. Plus the foot print it had from the mono pour foundation would have kept it up if the ground ever got into that seismic liquifaction that once had everyone so excited in a few places on the left side of the hill a long time ago.

Once saw some interesting work done with empty aluminum cans and mortar for walls that worked pretty good.

The used vehicle tires is just about totally out now, apparently they've discovered some kind of weirdo chemical that leaches out of them that is toxic to just about everything. Think it was one of those big happy nature shows on TV that did a special on how all those wonderful sea life producing tire reefs were all going to have to be pulled up because they were poisoning the waters. Sounded great at the time though.

SO the last artificial reef structure I knew about being build in the sound was out of old china potties and sinks.

A.
RE: On other alternative building materials...and future salmon runs. bylordoflys4 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
There are some amazing alternative building methods employed in this County. Related to this...Im sure you have seen the information about the Bloom Box on the news and on 60 minutes. This advanced but simple fuel cell technology will make the grid obsolete. At current electrical rates in WA State the BB can produce electricity with very little or no environmental damage and run on any fuel type, including methane gas. It could make hydropower obsolete as well. In-stream diversions could be placed in rivers for irrigation and there would be no reason to keep the dams up in the Columbia River Basin. Could the historic salmon runs come back as a result?
The Bloom Box Fuel Cell on 60 Minutes byAureliux4 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228923n&tag=contentM

Pretty interesting, looks like it works, will have to keep an eye on this one!

A.
RE: The Bloom Box Fuel Cell on 60 Minutes byJSmith4 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
I didn't know that about the tires...was just looking at someone building with them just last year. I guess he didn't see the nature special. This bloom box definitely looks interesting. I'm with Mr. Skeptic, though, in that the big corps will take it and run, it'd be nice to see someone invent something like that and not have it turn into a big money issue; I would hope it really could benefit us environmentally as well as financially. But I don't see that big corporations will let go of big profit for the sake of mankind. I think if they do market this thing, we'll be paying out our a** for it.
RE: The Bloom Box Fuel Cell on 60 Minutes bycountrygirl114 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
I'm all for alternate building material, energy, water storage and most of all POLITICAL parties. As long as we allow our elected officials to be influenced by the money they receive for election campaigns we will continue to get the timber companies, big pharma, AMA, Real Estate-land companies, bankers, wall street, etc. putting it to the little guy. Those business are neccessary but do they necessarly need to make millions before anything starts trickling down? I'm now climbing down from my soap box.
Hydro Electric Generation, Saving Energy, Saving Water byAureliux4 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
One of the best and most simple of all examples of passive solar energy usage is an old school clothes line for drying laundry. Humidity and air movement around here can get things dry in a hurry. UV rays in the sun are an incredible natural anti bacterial agent. And I think it's less stressful on the fabric than tumble drying, so things end up lasting longer for better wear.

I don't have time to do the preliminary figures but just imagine the quantity of electric clothes dryers in this county and the amount of KW used to keep those things tumbling around here in the summer. It IS all water through the dams.

For saving energy costs I have noticed quite a few people lately switching from electric clothes dryers to LPG/Nat. Gas. AND if I had my way, I would NEVER cook on an electric range again for the rest of my life. Still think a gas range is a cost saver but I can't stand cooking on electric burners.

It is also not too terribly hard to build a box on the ground, point the face of it to the sun, get some water tight pipe in it, figure out how to get it in there just right so the water won't trap and move in the right direction, then put a window on it. All kinds of ways to get these things to work, just can't let them freeze. No moving parts. Not that horribly expensive to make. The principle that gets things going in there to circulate is called the thermal siphon.

I'd say around here it would be fairly easy to get 100% hot water heater savings from an efficient thermal siphon system for almost 6 months of the year.

And there is a way to create these things for swimming pool and hot tub systems. Just have to kind of be careful when the sun is out full and bright all day in the summer because you will get more heat out of them than you like. So you have to know about proper pressure vents and temperature control valves.

When I first started fooling around with a nice passive no moving parts thermal siphon? Someone decided I needed supervision and called the health department and the building inspector. They fell all over themselves beating a hasty path to my door with clip boards and paperwork. They were convinced that I was going to somehow take a straight through system, create some kind of internal heat exchanger, load it with anti-freeze, and kill off my family with toxic hot water!

It was a major hassle. They actually made some pretty heavy threats and other nasty manipulative shenanigans of what they were going to do to me, my house, and my family if I didn't immediately cease and not hook the darn thing up to the house. Which included a red tag and certifying my structure as unfit for habitation. It was a real divine pleasure dealing with them, please let me assure you!

Another fine example of people with nothing better to do, and who probably stayed up all night worrying that someone else might be having a good, creative time.

BUT that was dealing with things in another place, a long time ago. Maybe times have changed? One can only hope.

A.
RE: Hydro Electric Generation, Saving Energy, Saving Water bylordoflys4 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
Hmmm. Good story, A. Can't say I ever had the inclination (or the skill) to manipulate machinery. I trapped some quail on Riverbottom road once and penned them in the back yard of our house on Vuecrest. It took about 4 hours before the neighbors started complaining. They all escaped and ended up sitting on my neighbors garage...then I had to get rid of the chicken wire...at age 13. And, yes, times are changing.
Drought Thoughts bylordoflys4 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Finally, the absence of snowpack is getting attention from decision-makers. Gov. Gregoire has transferred $4.1 m from a disaster relief fund for drought relief efforts, presumably for well digging and water rights leases. This is just a drop in the bucket (sorry) and won't provide much relief but is meaningful just the same. A wet spring will help forests and early crops as well as preserve reservoir levels. Then a really nasty drought can be averted. Even a mild drought, like the one in 2005, can cost the state nearly $1 billion. Bad ones cost much more. It shouldn't take a rocket science to figure out that expanding our reservoir capacity, as in enlarging Bumping Lake, is, in the long term, saving money. Lots of it. In these economic times, though, it takes a politician with foresight and boldness to push through such an expensive public works project. These days spending money, for whatever purpose, attracts criticism.

On March 10, 2005 The Governor declared a drought emergency for that year. It will be interesting to see if a similar declaration will be issued this year....though I doubt it. There hasn't been any funding requests from this county or others to my knowledge..or formal declarations of impending doom. "Drought is a regular occurrence in the Yakima River Basin, and appears to be increasing in frequency." That quote is from the latest joint study by Reclamation and Ecology. I don't know what that cost the taxpayers but I would have gladly provided that information for free.
Recharge/Snowpack on the way? byAureliux4 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
http://www.noaa.gov/

Look this up and poke in the zip code for Ellensburg, check out what appears to be on the way! More winter.

Anyone else besides me remember getting out in the snow on June 6 last year? I took some pictures of it.

Wonder if this is going to be another one of those years where the studded tires won't want to come off the vehicles until the 4th of July?

Noticed the rivers were getting rather high yesterday, sure would be nice if there was a better way to keep that surplus back where it could be used and enjoyed by everybody later in the year.

A.
RE: Recharge/Snowpack on the way? bylordoflys4 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
A, yes, a few good storms between now and the start of irrigation season might get us over the hump. Storage is 90% of normal and releases are at 63% of normal. There's a lot of water being flushed down the Teanaway and Swauk right now, though.

The Cle Elum hatchery salmon fry are also being released into the river in a week. A million of these plus the wild fry will be competing with trout for insects before they head to the ocean. A million salmon ought to raise the river level infinitesimally.
TWSA for 2010 bylordoflys4 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Chris Lynch, who works down at the looks-like-a-prison Reclamation office in Yakima has thrown out a TWSA number. 77%. Which means that after all of the senior water rights holders get 100% of their water, junior rights holders, which are what most of Kittitas water subscribers are, can expect 77% of what they need. Now you would think that Chris would throw out a conservative number, error on the side of caution so to speak. Wrong. In the past, when Reclamation, after studying water flows, snow pack, weather forecasts, and other data, announced TWSA's that were too conservative, farmers in turn left fields fallow, ploughed up field crops, and, in a few cases, vinyards and orchards were cut. Later, when late snowfall arrived TWSAs were revised upward. Farmers and orchardists were irate and lawyers took over.

So now, the modus operandi of Reclamation is to throw a number out and revise downward as conditions change. 77% is a good number as it can tip either way. Nobody really knows what to do at 77%. To plant or not to plant. Sort of like playing russian roulette with God.
Water/Life Complications and Old Taverns bylordoflys4 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
When the old tavern in Ronald, first known at "Matt's Place" was torn down Feb. 13th photos were taken and maybe a few old timers had a chance to "toast" the demolition. Not so for Thorp's T&E Tavern...which was there one minute and gone the next. At least Ronald had the Old No. 3 to replace it. Thorp has no replacement. There was some history at both watering holes. I remember buying a candy bar at the T&E for my Mom back in the late '50s there...having lunch in the 70's while putting up hay, and playing shuffleboard in 2000. There was no foundation for the building so the pool table was off kilter by about 7 degrees and the whole place shook when the wind was howlin' but it was a fun place for local beer drinkers to, well...drink beer.

Kittitas County Commissioners, who I have very little faith in, may indeed end the exempt well moratorium soon. But things will never be the same and and future development will include water mitigation, in the form of securing senior water rights to offset water extraction. The onus will be on developers in the future to incorporate this cost into real property prices. "The moratorium is the single most important issue facing Kittitas County and its economic stability" quotes Mark McClain. Well, not really. That would be water storage, Mark. And the ballyhoo surrounding the Commissioner's Drought Response Implementation Program is unworthy. You can set up all the "water funds" and other options but in the end you need........water.
And you will not get additional water without additional storage. Of that I am certain.
RE: Water/Life Complications and Old Taverns byJeremy4 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse)
If the state wants to really do their job they would address the storage issue now. They like to form groups and talk but thats it. Instead they wasted loads of money here in Kittitas County going after exempt well users, which hardly use any water. All because of political pressure and fringe enviro groups, no provable problem. Still to this day no evidence of impairment has been filed with the state.

Instead the state should focus on the big picture and stop going after small countys and home owners, its bad policy.
Water from the Columbia, and an UNBELIEVABLE Fish Story... byAureliux4 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011339984_c

Little story this AM in the Sea Times about the latest pipe project from the Columbia. Barely has a one-liner in there about storage and the Black Rock project.



http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/W/WA_FISH_KILLING_WAOL-

And THAT is an unbelievable story of some very bad vandalism to a nice school kids fun little educational salmon fry raising and release project. I hope they catch the perpetrators that did this nasty crime against nature, and somehow see to it that this does not happen again.

A.
RE: Water from the Columbia, and an UNBELIEVABLE Fish Story... bylordoflys4 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
I read both articles. Now that we've finished mining the Othello aquifer what happens to all that dead space underground? I hope Moses Lake doesn't sink a half mile down.

And Jeremy...I agree with your analysis on the State. We could have built Black Rock with all the money government managers have spent on studies. In 1906 Reclamation just came in and BUILT. They didn't spend years studying, mitigating, and playing politics. They essentially built the entire irrigation project, including the same dams and canals that we still use today. Very little has been done since besides a legacy of paper.
Ever read that Lake Missoula Story? byAureliux4 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse)
There was a deal in one of these various news papers around here that had a story on a massive body of water that once covered several states east of us, called Lake Missoula.

Apparently, it could be the culprit for releasing all the water that made the high tide marks around here that are over 1,000' above any other surface water level like the Yakima River.

Really could be interesting some day if things shake a bit in Grant County after all the underground water is pumped out.

Could be like some of the old jokes about the oil coming up from down below, around the west edge of California, and the possibility of new ocean front property in Nevada some day. Imagine Tahoe Bay and Seaworld of Reno...

Can remember some of the severe anti-dam individuals predicting massive earthquakes because of the weight placed on the earth's crust pressing down on weak spots between hills along old river beds that were assumed to be surface fault lines.

Guess the only way to look at is? We are all gonna die. BUT I had a magnificent bike ride this afternoon.

We need surface water storage. An awful lot of extra water is running down hill from rain that could be caught and used later for everyone's benefit. And I sure as heck would not mind one more big puddle to paddle a 'yak on, and perhaps bring home a fish now and again.

What would happen if someone came up with open pit mining rights for sand and gravel for the north end of Lake Cle Elum and excavated the heck out of it, made it a lot deeper for more storage? Couldn't the same thing be done with the west end of Kacheless? Plenty of sand and gravel mining, rock crushing going on. Couldn't we figure out a way to kind of move an operation in there, they could get their material, and we'd all end up with more water storage?

Just a thought.

A.
Geology 101 bycountrygirl114 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
There was a lake formed by a giant ice dam in Montana that broke loose when the dam melted that formed the potholes region in Eastern Washington, Selah Gap and other land formations.
No getting around the fact we need more storage. Those reams of paper produced from endless studies employed alot of people - how's that for a positive spin?
The big picture for Eastern Washington and our country is a return manufacturing, protecting that land that grows our food and ending our dependance on foreign oil.
Not only nice weather for a bike ride but also for working in the garden listening to pre-season baseball.
geology and baseball bylordoflys4 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
There is a a club or association that is based on the great Missoula Flood and the aftermath. And there were people living along the path of this flood when it happened. I can't imagine cleaning fish one minute, hearing something like an approaching freight train and then glimpsing a 1000 foot wall of water and debris seconds before it ended your world.

Drought notwithstanding, Countrygirl and A have got me prepped for some bike riding and kayaking. I'm too lazy to grow more than a few fruit trees and Im happy that baseball season has just about arrived!
Looking at Water byAureliux4 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Got out and looked around Wade Pond yesterday. Appears the water level dropped several feet. Suppose it might have something to do with that annual event, Opening of the Ditches? Did not see any new beaver action. Wonder if they may have gotten an eviction notice?

Gardening sounds great. Used to have the ultimate setting for one. Started putting together a growing green fantasy up here. Started hauling up compost from the dump, figure I got around 30 yards of it then blended it with fine bank run unwashed sand. Alternated the layers tilled it in good, then layered it some more. Once place I had it over 5' deep leveling out an old slant slope. I'd put in a pretty decent orchard, grape varieties, and all kinds of berries.

One thing I ALWAYS wanted to find for the garden, and it's too late for that one now? Mt. St. Helens ash. FANTASTIC mineral content.

Still have a rototiller. Don't have a garden at the moment.

Baseball was a lot of fun. I played. Just not much interest in sitting around watching someone else have fun, I've got to be out and in it.

Dusting off some of the camping gear today. Going to be out and up on the bike to spend some two wheeled time in the great outdoors. And I'm wondering if I might be able to procure a fishing license this year.

Really, REALLY want to tie into one of those monster trout that I see hanging around on the bottom of the north end of Cooper Lake. No idea what kind they are, have heard several opinions. Darn things look like salmon down there just being still above the sandy bottom. Have seen a few people fish in there, have seen the nice pan sized caught here and there. BUT I want to see one of those BIG ones.

Hope everyone has a Happy Saturday. Looks like it's going to be a FANTASTIC day.

Maybe I'll get inspired and write a bit more on the geology thoughts later. All Good Stuff...

A.
RE: Looking at Water bycountrygirl114 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Hope everyone had a happy first day of Spring. Mariners won and the garden is in good shape for planting. I've eaten some of those fish from Cooper Lake, don't know what they are either, but they were tasty. I have some blueberries and an apple tree, I do vegies. The interesting thing about St Helens ash is, the tomatoes that came out of Yakima the summer after the volcano blew tasted SO GOOD I knew that ash had some good nutriants in it. The choice to go organic for me is two fold, first, it is cheaper. I have access to free compost (friends with horses, cows and chickens). Second, pesticides and herbicides are expensive. Since I have the time to shovel manure and weed it's a win win. It is alot of work, deer and elk are annoying or should I say the fencing is a annoying, I like seeing the deer and elk. It's all worth it.
I'm very concerned about the irrigation water supply. As the water falling from the sky continues to pass us by I wonder what the summer holds.
RE: RE: Looking at Water bymoderate4 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Got some raised beds and have been growing my own vegies for some time now. Love those canned beans and tomatoes during the winter. Usually try to have a good supply of canned fruit -- peaches, pears, nectarines -- for the winter. Also have some old apple trees that make some incredible applesauce. Usually freeze enough corn to last us the winter also. All this bounty requires daily watering. Don't live far outside Ellensburg, but depend upon a well for water. Been noticing a change in the pressure the past few years as more folks are growing their own crops -- agree wih you countygirl, this summer might prove to be a pivotal one for this valley. Might get our elected officials to pay some attention to planning for our future water needs. I know that for me this will be a big issue as I look to the November elections.
Water??? byCleElum14 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Just wondering where we are on the water well issue. I haven't heard if the water-bank is up and running. Have people been getting their water mitigated from the water bank or is it still a "work in progress"? Last I heard the moratorium was still in place without a short reprieve, but life got busy and I lost track. Then, seeing a well driller set up along Lower Peoh Point Rd. made me wonder where we at in all this.
Moratorium Extended For Another 120 Days byClem4 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The moratorium was set to expire today. I just pasted the press release from DOE which is below. I am still wondering how much the water from Suncadia will cost? I would like to see some housing starts around here because our economy is pretty much dead from the construction point of view. Way too many people out of work.




Upper Kittitas groundwater rule extended
OLYMPIA - With mitigation water now available for purchase from a senior water right holder, and with state and county officials studying the effectiveness of a domestic water reserve program for upper Kittitas County, the Washington Department of Ecology (Ecology) has extended an emergency rule that currently limits new groundwater withdrawals in the upper county.

New groundwater uses are allowed when the water use is fully mitigated to offset impacts to senior water rights and protect streamflows.

Ecology Director Ted Sturdevant extended the rule for another 120 days on Tuesday, March 23, 2010. New groundwater withdrawals were first halted in July 2009 because of concerns about the impact groundwater pumping in upper Kittitas County has on the total water supply for the Yakima River Basin. The rule was due to expire March 25.

The U.S. Bureau of Reclamation anticipates senior surface water supplies will be rationed this irrigation season. It will be the fifth time water has been rationed to senior water users since 2000. “We’re looking at another likely drought this year,” Sturdevant said. “Allowing new, uncontrolled drilling into the very groundwater that folks downstream rely on — but won’t get this year — just doesn’t make sense. We’re in discussion with the county, and I’m hopeful we can develop a long-term solution soon that provides predictability and balances a finite water supply across competing needs.”

Mitigation water is now available for purchase from Suncadia Resort through a water-banking program that allows for development along much of the I-90 corridor in upper Kittitas County. Ecology is working with Suncadia to process water-budget-neutral requests for prospective home builders and homeowners.

Approval of water-budget-neutral requests would provide these property owners the mitigation they need to obtain building permits this year, and would be the first transactions using the Upper Kittitas Water Exchange.

In the meantime, state and county officials are still negotiating a water management agreement, including an innovative domestic water reserve program that would allow development to occur through a water leasing program. A successful reserve program would protect homeowners and fish runs during dry years, and protect the long term agriculture economy.

“The Yakima Basin is already short on water, as water right holders who get shut off in dry years know all too well,” Sturdevant said. “And we know that groundwater in most of the basin feeds surface water needed by irrigators and fish.”

He added, “New development, which has relied on tapping that groundwater in the past, should and can proceed without harming downstream water users. Our new water bank is allowing this ‘water budget neutral’ development to work, by having new water uses obtain mitigation water that keeps the system whole. Now we need to build on that approach.”

A copy of the extended emergency rule may be viewed online at: http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wr/cro/kittitas_wp.html.

Information about the Upper Kittitas Water Exchange is available online at: http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wr/cwp/wtrxchng.html

###
Reality byJeremy4 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I hope most of you can now see that this moratorium has nothing to do with water and more with politics. The state could end this when ever they want to, still no evidence of impairment. Many good ideas have been presented to the DOE but they still are not putting forth an honest effort.

I believe that groundwater pumping in this county is very well documented in the USGS as well as the surplus of recharge in the lower county.
If there is a drought declared you can see how fast the DOE can react. They will issue drought relief wells and allow ones to be put to use.
RE: Reality byAureliux4 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Yes, of course it is. Some continue to beat this issue to fit their own agenda and platform of zero growth in our county and will stretch the limits of my imagination to force the issue BECAUSE there MAY be a problem with the deep aquifer in this county.

Which, in regards to that specific source of well water? NO one knows where it really comes from, or where it goes. Like I've said before THIS could be the one that takes a serious left turn and runs out under Olympia into the south end of Puget Sound.

IF someone could objectively view the FACTS as they now stand? I believe there is just as much PROOF that to IMPROVE the surface water situation and down stream surface water rights, well owners COULD be REQUIRED to pump a minimum number of gallons out of their system and onto the ground in the form of irrigation to IMPROVE surface water supplies through the dry seasons here.

This should also not be treated like a basketball game, of one team (BLUE) against the other (RED). We need to all get on with the program and not continue to take cheap shots at the opposite party.

Water pumped out of the ground is not hauled away to a refinery, turned into a fuel, burned up, which then turns into pollution. It's WATER and it does not disappear when it's used. I've already apologized and repented for taking a jug of it out of the county once. I PROMISE not to do it again.

IF one was a TRUE environmentalist AND wanted to get active on issues regarding health and wholesome water practice? AS I've mentioned before? POLLUTION. Illegal private junk yards leaking all kinds of junk into the surface water supply. BIG timber companies getting sewage sludge from METRO King County and spraying it on OUR forests which is raising the heavy metal content AND blood born pathogen level sky high.

And I may as well spill the beans on my own, serious, selfish issue about water and health issues. So here's something of a personal nature from me, that I would like to share with all of you.

I lost someone that I was married to, to cancer when she was 38 years old who left me with a 4 year old daughter to raise. That beautiful woman was born and raised in an area that had two main industries. HUGE corn farms, and coal mines.

After she passed away I spoke with someone who knew the area real well where she was born and raised. ALL the water was contaminated. It was LOADED with ag chemicals and mining residue. He'd personally tested hundreds of wells and ALL the results would come back that it was really, really unhealthy and NOT recommended for humans OR baby animals.

IF things keep up around here? The LAST thing anyone is going to be worried about is more wells. What you ARE going to be doing is? Having to figure out how to distill your own drinking water, because that will be all there is.

A.
RE: Reality bycountrygirl114 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
A, thank you for sharing and that opens a whole new can of worms. Monsanto chemical and research company is gonna make sure it doesn't matter where you live. There plan is to bring the ag chemicals directly to your dinner plate. GMO corn, soy and canola grown in this country is here now. Corn, soy and canola have been genenticly engineered by using a virus carrier to introduce a way for the plant to resist the herbicde Roundup (maufactured by, you guessed it, Monsanto). The same use of a virus carrier is being used to introduce Bt, a natural pesticde into corn, soy and canola so the plants produce their own pesticide. The proplem is, all this ends up in the final product that we eat but in an altered form. Sugar beets, some zuccini and summer squash varieties are now GM and since the same guy who used to work for Monsanto and is now at the FDA, labeling for consumers to know what they are eating isn't looking too good.
All this impacts our fresh water supplies. The total water supply available - TWSA - for the Yakima Basin is over allocated. The allocation was a known fact before 6,000 new building lots were created in Kittitas County. I have no idea the number of new lots in Yakima and Benton Counties. The economic situation has curtailed alot of construction. The closure is in the upper county and I don't see people beating feet to build east of Indian John to the Columbia River.
I am NOT trying down play the impact on some people in the Upper county, I'm saying by over riding their own planning dept. the BOCC threw gasoline on the fire. The BOCC over turned 80% of the planning departments recomendations for development. The collision between water use and land use issues was inevitable.
Surface water byJeremy4 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Trying to down play the devastation to the upper county by using surface or river water numbers is a bit disingenuous. Those numbers are for surface water rights and used for irrigation. Not one person has yet to present evidence that exempt wells in the area are taking water from the senior water right holders downstream. Since the DOE requires that anybody claiming impairment has to prove it with facts, then the DOE should have to follow the same rules it enforces.

The allocation that you like to refer to is all controlled by the state, who you want to allow to have more control over countys development rights. This state issued moretorium has stopped lots of homes from being built and discorages many more. What a handful fail to realize is that without houses being built no new taxes, which means no new funding for everyday services provided by the countys tax fund. The one thing that everyone can see is that our countys economy is directly connected to people moving and investing in the county.
re surface water bymoderate4 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Your premise that "without houses being built no new taxes, which means no new funding for everyday services provided by the countys tax funds" is not exactly true. While there will be new taxes paid, residential growth has long been shown to be a net drain on an economy. Residential housing demands much more in services than it pays. The only way a residential community survives without a balance of commercial/business growth is if folks are wiling to tax themselves to pay for the services. And, we all know how that would go over in this community.
Yes, you are right that our economy is tied to investments in the community. But, not unsupported residential growth. We need jobs here that aren't tied into construction. That bubble burst, and I tend to think that even without the moritorium in place there would be little if any housing starts.
As far as business growth, I would imagine that most businesses can operate on a well and septic but need municipal services like water and sewer. Last time I checked the City of Ellensburg had lots of water available.
I think that if you check carefully into some of the remarks of those that you consider "no growthers" you'll realize that they are against residential growth that can't be supported and are actually in favor of business growth.
RE: byJeremy4 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Considering that more people living here also means more services from businesses taxs collected on everyday things like fuel,shopping, building materials, and labor. Jobs get created when there is an extra demand for such services, that is what creates business growth.

I would have to disagree with your idea that there would be little if any housing starts. There is a waiting list for the transfer bank, I'm guessing that those people are going to build and would have already if there was no moritorium.

The handful of people who have shown support for this moritorium are completly against any and all growth. Which also means against business since businesses like to start in growing communities. That is what started this whole problem, a 3 person anti-development group. These groups dont have much to loose since they have no care for the fall out of their actions onto the community, they already have their exempt well. I'm sure if they dealt everyday with people who have had their plans ruined due to this moritorium they might feel different.
Heh. More than 3. byPeon4 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Working locals who take a public stand against developers risk a LOT. Look who owns land around here, and look who's employing. If you want to work in this county, you keep your trap shut. But don't confuse that with not liking what's going on.

And it's NOT about "all development sucks". It's about development in ways and places where it causes avoidable problems that taxpayers have to cope with later.
Bad investments bycountrygirl114 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
People in Cle Elum, Roslyn and So. Cle Elum are paying $100 a month for sewer and water because not enough has sold in Suncadia to pay for the treatment plant. The BOCC has allowed Jen-Weld, the company with the 28 million set aside for infrastructure to walk away, scott free, from the deal. Then BOCC did not require ANY bonds to garantee future infrastructure, relying solely on sales. The 5 million dollar letter of credit will not be able to be accessed because the BOCC and building dept. has allowed an illegal sewage holding tank in phase 2, division 2. The reason the holding tank is illegal is the governing document that lays out the RULES for development in Suncadia expressly forbids occupying a home that is not hooked up to water, gas, electric and sewage.
I realize this is not a water issue but it will ultimately have a much larger impact on the residents of Kittitas County when they realize they are on the hook financially for the installation of all the utilities in phase 2, division 2 of Suncadia. This was an avoidable situation.
I have seen first hand the vitrolic nature of those who do not like opinions that oppose theirs.
I want good jobs, honest and open government, and stable growth in this county.
The land sales in this county in '06 and '07 looked just like the gold/silver mining heydays of the old west. Many of those sales were based on developers circumventing the intent of the permit exempt well law.
The moratorium was an avoidable event, the BOCC failed the residents of this county.
Fascism and Water bylordoflys4 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The comments made above by Countrygirl are disturbing if she is correct. Certainly interesting.

First I want to make a comment on Prof. Manweller's column in today's paper. Prof. Manweller makes an immediate attack on Democrats as if they were somehow responsible for America's economic ills. His premise is laughable. It takes some nerve to blame the other party after eight years of Republican administration under George Bush brought the world to it's economic knees. And the massive stimulus package he mentions actually began under the Republican administration, a point he conveniently omits. As a local party bigwig though, I suppose this pile of propaganda keeps him invited to state party meetings.

We need two political parties in this country, however. At least. A strong Republican party is a necessary political counterweight. Too much strength within one party centralizes power and suppresses opposition through censorship. We invented a word for just that. Fascism. Which brings me to another article in the paper. Our county commissioners entered into an executive meeting last March 17th along with Deputy Prosecutor Brent Bottoms. These gentlemen are all public-funded employees. Paid with your tax dollars. In the case of the commissioners they are elected to serve. The commissioners violated the state's Open Public Meeting Act by barring the public. It also looks as though they also made a decision in a closed meeting regarding local funding...also a violation of the Act. The commissioners claim they followed the letter of the law. Maybe, but they certainly did not follow the spirit....What else are they hiding or omitting? The residents of Kittitas County, at least those not on the commissioners receiving end... would do well by examining a little more closely this little concentration of local power.

What has this to do with water? I've been critical from the getgo on the commissioners handling of the moratorium and on water issues in general. And where there's smoke there's usually fire.
RE: Fascism and Water bycountrygirl114 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
Which comments do you mean? The GMO food or what our BOCC have been up to? The Suncadia stuff is true AND there's more, CDS gave false documentation to the lender concerning the home being hooked up to utilities.
RE: Fascism and Water byAureliux4 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse)
Good Grief Charley Brown? Fascism and Water? Wholly Kats Man, what am I going to do about this round?

Now, c'mon already! 8 years of Red Team in the winner's seat? What year did Ms. Pelosi catch the role of Speaker of the House? I think she was in there to irritate the administration LONG before we elected this current, extremely popular president who is going to fix everything for us...

So yeah, we MIGHT need both parties. For real? Where'n the heck would we have been once upon a time if EVERYONE had been conservatives? It was True Liberals, in my so humble opinion, that got us totally out from under the supervision and direction of the oppressive un-United Kingdom.

But anyway, back on the water track. More I see of this, the only last and final solution is going to be MONEY and WATER RIGHTS and once SOMEONE can decide that they really own the rights to it all and THEY can charge for it? There will be plenty.

Just sit back and wait though, for someone to decide that the wind farms are changing the weather somewhere and then we have to go through all this nonsense AGAIN because OUR windmills are blocking someone else's wind and/or air currents. Yeah, the AIR is still there, but it's just kind of getting routed around somewhere else.

Like I've said before, the water isn't getting burned up. It's just going somewhere other than where Geology 101 intended it.

So there's my current off base metaphysical analogy for the day. I'll see if I feel up to writing a bit more later.

A.
RE: Fascism and Water bywhatatrip4 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
I have suggested that the Daily Record update the Guest column section of their opinion section so that we can comment on the likes of Manweller. There has been the same quest in that section since February. It was a Judy Warnick opinion which isn't worth much more, if any, than a Manweller opinion. Manweller is so devoid of reality his comments beg for commentary. He is as bad as Sarah Palin.
Back to Basics bylordoflys4 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
One more unsolicited comment on F & W and then stick a fork in me 'cause I'm done...If the Daily Record offers their opinion sections to Science Profs to comment on partisan economics, let's have Music Profs comment on revisionist history. Or how about Physical Education Profs offering their take on molecular structure....

Water

On March 13 the Seattle Times included an article about the new pipeline being built to pull water from the Columbia to help potato farmers, whose wells are running dry. This irrigation project could eventually cost billions, and may include the need for another dam. There is much at stake. French fries. Lots of em. While we make China rich buying everything they make we reciprocate by selling them airplanes and french fries. Presumably until they figure out how to produce both of these and sell them to us as well. China doesn't have much water, either. So the question is, should we spend billions of dollars pulling water from the Columbia so that we can sell cheap french fries to the world, or is this water (and money) better used to nourish vinyards, orchards, timothy hay, and other higher end ag products in the lower and middle Columbia Basin which includes the Yakima and Kittitas valleys. And what about homes and businesses?

Judging from the comments received on this article Washington residents are divided. Some, on the west side think that irrigation is some sort of conservative plot. Those east of the mountains point out that agriculture is a bigger business than software and airplanes.

Michael Garrity, who runs American Rivers out here, has signed off on the water extraction plans from the Columbia and further up at Lake Roosevelt. Michael wants to make sure that fish are protected but also understands that eastside farmers just cannot be abandoned like a worn out pair of gloves. Other environmentalists are over the top, like Rachael Osborn, head of the Center of Environmental Law and Policy in Spokane, who offers this, "I don't think they should spend public money on a pipeline to nowhere". Hmmmm. Maybe Rachael thinks that sports stadiums and space exploration are more important than food production. I don't know. But if her reasoning is that of questioning if possibly the money might be better off building a reservoir in, say, Othello, or Bumping Lake I'd agree with her. But I get the impression that she'd be against that, too. At least Garrity has the sense to compromise.

We have been given some March precipitation in the mountains. Our lower elevation snowpack is now 90% of normal and upper is 67%. Precipitation for the water year is about 74% of average. If this mountain moisture keeps up the chances for us avoiding a nasty drought are greatly increased....Good news!
RE: Back to Basics bycountrygirl114 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
The operative word IS compromise. If that much green will be spent to get water to potatoe growers we should get some for more water storage for this area of Eastern WA. Further, since obesity is a health concern and we are be forced to buy health insurance, a tax (like on booze and tobacco) on junk food, soda pop, fatty foods. candy bars, etc. could help off set the cost of the pipeline and other water projects. Glad to see the rain and snow, our farmers need it.
let it snow bycountrygirl113 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Better it come down as snow than rain. Can't do any work in the garden either way.
Thoughts on Water bylordoflys3 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
There is a lot of interest these days about survivalism. Some of my friends who lean hard to the right are convinced that economic collapse is a heartbeat away. Vitriolic radio and TV hosts fuel that way of thinking for their own political ends. But economic collapse due to politics is highly unlikely in this country. A collapse of our way of life is much more likely due to a natural disaster of some sort. A disruption in food and/or water distribution would do it. I've lived without water before and it's not fun. Survivalism kicks in once toilets stop flushing. And then things get much worse. Way before food becomes an issue, people will go where the water is.

Many so-called survivalist information is really nothing but a forum on firearms. Access to water will be much more valuable. Not that protecting that water isn't. Those who own wells or reservoirs will be in a much better position than urban dwellers as long as electricity isn't needed to access this water. Water collection (rain), storage and treatment are all part of a true survivalist checklist.

This late storm in the Cascades is just the thing we needed to avert the Drought of 2010. But why go thru this boom or bust water cycle every year? Olympia heaped piles of money in the form of tax breaks to Boeing...only to have them thumb their nose at us and move to Chicago. Kittitas County agriculture isn't going away. Additional water storage will go a long way in preserving our own way of life.
RE: Thoughts on Water bywhatatrip3 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
The coming economic collapse is a self fulfilling prophesy. The right wing has been saying the same thing ever since Reagan got into office and gathered a following who believed his message that "government is not the solution, government is the problem". And everytime the right wing gets control, "the government is the problem". Why does the voting public continue to elect governmental officials who believe government is the problem?
Reclamation Reset bylordoflys3 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Dang, I hate to be right all the time. Remember I explained why BOR's issuance of their water estimate for jr water right holders (pro-ratables), called a TWSA, is usually too optimistic? Well, Reclamation has indeed lowered their estimate. Earlier they estimated 77% of normal water for us (and other pro-ratable water districts such as KID). They have just revised, downward, their estimate to 71%. And this is despite recent massive snowfall in the Eastern Cascades since their earlier estimate.

Why do they do it? Because they've been sued in the past and eco-politics, as well as their own in-house attorney, dictate these numbers, not true science. Should be a law keeping attorney's out of science, and life in general.

It's a wonder, all of this late season snow. Im actually sitting back in 85 degree weather right now but I've got a river float planned for the end of the month. Hope it warms up before my plane lands at Sea-Tac!!
RE: Reclamation Reset byAureliux3 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse)
OK,

LoF? Now let us please look at this in a slightly different light, if we can?

Could this just possibly be a PUBLIC RELATIONS media blitz to gain a lot of attention to the situation by making a lot of involved people angry? Can't they, and won't they change the allocation at the last minute so someone or a particular group can end up looking like an end of the story hero?

I mean, look at how things are manipulated in other areas of our fine State?

Public Schools? If they don't get their much needed $$$ in taxes, what is the first thing they threaten to CUT? School bus services? Make all the parents take note and get active because they HAVE to have bus service? Chop the sports and phys ed activities? So if all the good parents get worked up real nice and manipulated like... Then the next time a tax levy comes along they are all black mailed into voting for it?

So I don't want to debate the public school funding policy here. It's an example of picking on a certain vocal and active group for impact to create or continue a policy AND agenda.

I honestly hope you don't think these people really care one way or another about fish health, propagation, and their environment?

So here we have water. And a vulnerable group, the irrigation water users. SO why not threaten them with allocation, make them fearful and angry, then attempt to play them off against the people who need to have a well?

I see a scam, smell a rat, and do not trust those that are jerking the water issues around at all. I believe someone wanted headlines to help promote their platform and agenda, and they got it at the expense of someone else.

Now I really am going for a bike ride. Up on two wheels I go, into the sunshine and gentle breeze...

A.
Water byJeremy3 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Now that the state is pushing for a permanent rule for moratorium I hope that you all can see that this was the states game plan from the beginning. The county has publicly asked the DOEs' former director to sign their own agreement and he would not, this was at a meeting in Cle Elum. The DOE has constantly put down all public input for solutions to the so-called problem.

During this whole time not one shred of science or evidence has pointed to any problem connecting the exempt well use of Kittitas County to Senior Water rights in the lower valley, no documents of impairment or filed complaints. The state has not even done an business impact study to explore the damages that their policies have created.

What we do know is that a moratorium means no homes being built, no investment in the county, no new businesses, and a precedent setting situation that may spread across Eastern Washington.
RE: Water byAureliux3 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse)
Kind of falls into line with a lot of a peculiar platform and agenda coming from a particular group that first has a philosophy so everything else no matter how impossible or obscure has to fit that plan no matter what.

Kind of like, "Don't bother me with facts when our minds are made up." Or science, if you can insert that where facts belong. SHOULD be about the same thing in most context.

Did anyone else hear the public service announcement from Grant County, Ephrata area on the radio? Water supply is contaminated with bacteria and it's either boil it or buy it. Heard it several times over the past two days.

Watch, learn, and listen all you forum readers and responders. Here's my prediction...

The State wants control of this water situation. It IS going to turn it into some kind of utility. Which can be TAXED TAXED TAXED. Senior water rights owners will be compensated accordingly. And once this is SORTED OUT there will be PLENTY of water, all the good environmental concerns will be plausibly denied AGAIN but NOT by your opposing party, and suddenly everything will be back to what might pass as normal BUT building will go forward.

SO that is what I have to say for now. And with that, I plan on going out for a spin on a bike, and may even end up at The Big Pool for some hot tub and sauna recreation tonight. One never can tell. Even looked at the kayaks yesterday, thought about how I might even fix a broken rudder control cable today.

A.
Right and Wrong bylordoflys3 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
First, I have to agree with points from both A and Jeremy. And, in crystal clear hindsight I cannot argue against what looks like a complete politicalization of the upper county well situation...which would deflect at least some of the blame on the CCs, of which I have accused of mindlessness in past entries. I think that the commissioners may have played into the hands of the State by behaving boorishly but it is doubtful now whether permit-less wells will ever be allowed again without mitigation. That is, unless something is done about our perennial water shortages. Only sufficient additional storage would be enough to relax restrictions.

As far as the good folks at the looks-like-a-concentration-camp BOR in Yakima, I would be PO'ed if this trillion dollar unit of the federal government offered such a bogus water estimate at the biginning of the water season, then revised DOWNWARD by 10% after record setting precipitation in the mountains. This is science? Ask me next time. I won't charge anyone a dime and I won't be as far off the mark.

Despite fluctuating weather and Reclamation estimates we are now looking pretty good this year. Since I don't farm any more I'm more interested in kayaking conditions and fishability. But I hate to see my neighbors stress all summer over water availability, though.

If the government could find a way to tax stress it would create a self-fulfilling, self-propelled money machine. Maybe that's whats being done and we just haven't figured it out yet... How was your ride, Aureliux?
RE: Right and Wrong byAureliux3 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse)
Yes.

Ride was fantastic! GOT to get the 'yaks ready to go, do want to float and paddle soon.

Politicizing issues is always trendy and headline laundering. BIG ska-dillion dollar outfit with a fleet of litigation specialists already on retainer quivering at their desks WAITING for something to do that MIGHT get them in the news.

AND pick on a small group of people who can't defend themselves, and STRESS them to pieces because their entire year's income depends on a water ration that they have no control over.

Journalism thrives on this kind of adversarial relationship, as do politicians and Public Remains manipulators. They'll jack things around just for their own pleasure JUST because they can.

Was at Big Pool last night for the over 18 adult time. "5" people showed up. Sauna was divine. One more fantastic resource provided to this county that few take advantage of. Best $4.10 I spent all week.

I kidded around with the life guard about the unruly mob they had to attempt to keep in control! Too Much Fun.

A.
An end to the Drought of 2010 bylordoflys3 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
"Hasbrouck, after the bureau's Friday announcement, said he is still optimistic that continued cool, wet weather in the lowlands and periodic snow storms in the mountains will yield a better, overall supply forecast in May."

That was Ken Hasbrouck, KRD manager, commenting on the BORs estimate downward for junior water availability this irrigation season. This was in today's Record. Hasbrouck knows that the BOR estimate is tongue in cheek. In actuality, lower basin snow levels are over 100% of normal and upper basin levels are near 80%. With continued wet weather in the eastern Cascades, we won't have much to worry about this year. The final TWSA will be about 80%. 25-40% of water is still wasted in any irrigation year (down from over 80% a decade earlier) so I hearby declare officially that a drought will NOT take place in the Yakima Basin.

Unofficially, jr. water right holders will probably get near 80% of their allotment. They will also receive at least another 10% thru waste water collection and over-allocation. Kittitas County irrigators are a shrewd bunch and know more about water movement, soil saturation point, water physics, and plant physiology than anyone sitting inside a university. They also are experts on fishing holes, duck movements, and pheasant nesting not to mention wind velocity and shovel dynamics. Their late spring uniform consists of old rubber boots, overalls, worn leather hay gloves and a John Deere hat (sometimes worn alternatively with a red Pautzke "Balls of Fire" hat). So start looking for these spring creatures. They can usually be spotted at the edge of pastures and hay fields looking downward, or resting on a shovel handle. Don't slow down as they have short attention spans and are easily spooked.
More storage bycountrygirl113 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
There are many lobbyists in Wa DC looking for their share of tax payer dollars. One of the biggist is the real estate industry. There is a government funded program that unwrites loans for people who want to move to rural areas. Billions of dollars were alloted for the program. The program is due to expire later this year. The real estate lobbyist are hard at it get the program refunded.
The only way we are going to get government funds for more storage is for a powered lobbist to get it on the agenda.
RE: More storage byAureliux3 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse)
Let us please consider together, and create a big list of concerned groups that might have lobbyists on retainer who are active in our State that either could, or SHOULD be concerned with our water issues.

There really doesn't need to be any compromise in regards to more water storage. EVERYONE should be able to get on board.

Farms? Fire FIGHTING? Construction, land owners? Fishing? Wild life management and propagation? Cattle grazing and ranching?

Even on the FED level? DNR should be interested particularly since SOMEONE is forcing the dismantling of private ponds that the choppers used to dip out of to dump water on spot fires.

So let us please go forward, together, with some positive energy, see if we can dodge the litigation bullet being loaded, primed, and readied to fire between red/blue/green teams... And see if we can save our county?

POSITIVE ENERGY, PLEASE, LET US GO F O R W A R D OK?

I am going outside to play, now. It's a beautiful morning and I can't stay cooped up indoors. Off I go.

A.
War of Words make Poor Water Policy bylordoflys3 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
It isn't lost on readers of this thread that I have criticized, and even pinned part of the moratorium blame on poor leadership by our county comms and other local officials including Bill Hinkle. These locally-elected officials, following a strict party line, have negotiated, often in bad faith(according to the State) to no avail. Even the Daily Record has, on occasion, mentioned their contentious attitude in an opinion piece or two.

Rather than work for a solution, local officials went to the State Attorney General's Office...currently occupied by a Republican. Not getting the support they expected, Hinkle told local county commissioners yesterday that he is now contemplating suing the State of Washington, upping the ante and putting Kittitas County perilously close to State control on all water issues, not just the exempt well moratorium. This is a scheme bordering on madness. The Yakima Herald has just weighed in on Hinkle's antics in a column today. Go to
http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2010/04/16/water-needed to read more about Hinkle's all-in poker hand. Trouble is...the losers are the residents of Kittitas County.
RE: War of Words make Poor Water Policy byClem3 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Hinkle has completely gone about this the wrong way. There wont be anything to be gained at all by fighting the State. The truth is the Upper County economy has been devestated just like every "second" home community across the US. As has been noted we have 3,000 wells and not very many homes on those lots. We have Suncadia and plenty of water. The Upper County probably has unemployment in the 20% range. Hinkle and the "leaders" in the Upper County should be looking at ways to make improvements with for example State Highway monies. Cities like Federal Way, Colville, Selah, and Sequim have obtained millions of dollars in State Highway funds and have rebuilt sidewalks and undergrounded utilities in their downtown business districts. Hinkle could be using the Moratorium as a leverage to get money for infrastructure improvements rather than wasting time and County money fighting the State. There are not a whole lot of ways to get money from the State but highway money is one. Of course the Roslyn and Cle Elum would have to have a plan or vision and that might be a problem.
YES, Loosers in Kittitas County. IT'S US. byAureliux3 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
We are all going to loose in this one if things don't wise up and fly right. I've seen parallel situations blow up in everyone's faces too many times and I don't like it.

Think it's a RED vs. BLUE situation? I know it irritates the life out of most people but here's my thoughts on this fine state of affairs as it relates to what I've seen in the past.

Anyone look at their electric bill? It's not itemized for past litigation and stupid expenses. I think there are at least TWO of us on here, possible 3-4 who are old enough to remember The Washington Public Power Supply? Known as WHOOPS?

Once upon a time in this fine state we had this wonderful lady governor who liked nuclear power and got things rolling so we would be in fine shape with energy for a long time to come. And she was also quite blue. MAY have also been living an unpopular alternative life style which was not really appreciated by very many at the time.

Her blue party got all uncomfortable with the alternative business AND the GREEN portions really didn't much care for her NUKE philosophy. They kind of had a bit of a contest seeing who could be greener than the other, the RED party stood by and laughed while it self destructed from within, all the squabbling little BLUE factions felt really good about their own personal chirping little hard line ideas, and look what happened in the next election? We got stuck with John Spellman. What a treat THAT was.

Oh. I said something about our electric bills? I think we are STILL paying for the irritating massive litigation that lasted over a YEAR with the WPPS law suits. I was there, up front and personal with the situation, BECAUSE I was involved in distribution and "I" had to be in charge of shipping PAPER AND OFFICE SUPPLIES to the legal services involved.

Another fine example of extreme failure to communicate and work together to see what was coming? ANOTHER big knee jerk reaction to, "I'm BLUE, but GREENER than YOU?" ALL those tidy little sleepy blue communities on the left coast of Washington State thought THEY could take on the State and The Port of Seattle to prevent a 3rd runway at Sea-Tac. I was in Des Moines through it all. ONE year they BLEW over $9,000,000.00 on attorney's fees (or it was something close to that) to sue The Port of Seattle to stop the project.

You want to know how they managed to keep that in the budget? They CUT all the overtime for the police department. Sounded great to them at the time. They all felt real good about it, was all comfy and nice. ONLY problem was? That was the ONLY way the PD had time to get out and serve outstanding felony warrants. They did a GOOD job of keeping the really bad guys locked up. No more dedicated warrant serving time? Individual officers HAD to keep an eye out for the really bad guys.

IT WAS LESS THAN A BLOCK FROM MY HOUSE WHEN A PERFECTLY FINE YOUNG MARRIED OFFICER WAS MURDERED BY A WANTED FELON THAT COULD HAVE BEEN PICKED UP EARLIER BY AN OVERTIME PAID WARRANT PARTY.

Did notice after the fact that the left green side of the blue party didn't really care much how things were paid for their big flying purple 3 ring flaming cluster truck of a litigation party.

And the 3rd runway at Sea-Tac was finally approved, and that is the rest of that story. EXCEPT for the ones that had the green contest? They had their big parties, tried to show off as to who could raise a bit more to continue the battle, involved ALL the other little pieces of community throughout S. King Co. Many wanted to show how committed they were, took out extra mortgages, handed the $ over to legal counsel, and lost it all.

So now we have a little water issue. Well, it's not really little. GOOD comments on further failure to communicate the real needs of our water users, too.

I LIKED the comments on finding a responsible group of lobbyists to represent all of us for more surface water storage. SO how about someone helping me produce a list? Do the farmers in this county still have a grange with representation in our State Govt.? How about the big outdoors/wildlife/fishing groups? Even the RV/camping types should be interested and want to get on board.

DID anyone know, that SOMEONE is going around to the retention ponds up high, and demanding that they be drained? I know of two, north of there, that have had water in them for over 30 years. Shouldn't the wild land firefighters, and our local department be somewhat concerned that when they roll on a structure fire in a remote area that there might not be any water there this year?

OK, so I get to ranting and raving about things past. BUT those who refuse to learn by what we've experienced in history WILL be forced to experience it yet again.

I liked Dixy. Can't help it. So it's off topic? Hate my conspiracy theories? Well, here it is... "I" think she was sabotaged and set up by her OWN party AND the red team over the nuke deal. The little green faction wanted her out. Was it an improvement? No. We got stuck with John Spellman. Worst governor this state ever had, in my so humble opinion.

Want me to start with Bagnariol and legalized gambling in this state, and the idea to turn Ocean Shores into the Las Vegas of the NW?

Maybe next time...

A.
RE: YES, Loosers in Kittitas County. IT'S US. bylordoflys3 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Damn, A. Didn't mean to get ya riled up.
Hi, Yeah I got Riled, not your fault... byAureliux3 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Yes, and it's not your fault and I sincerely hope you didn't feel the heat from that one.

But yes, we speak of science and knowledge and geology and hydrology and other fine 'ologies. Some want to butt in with their one little slice of green philosophy which is all fine and good but often appear to not be able to see beyond their own narrow view of the world.

Take for instance the dam issue? All kinds of different thoughts on that one. And like I've stated before? There ARE natural dams and we can all go back to geology 101 and the huge mess that was made when that monster let loose in Montana. That was a "natural" occurrence. Shall we then, to appease all things normal, attempt to rebuild that and turn a couple states inland mostly into lakes because somehow the weather changed several thousand years ago?

So do we oppose change just because it might inconvenience our beliefs? Tie things up in litigation with massive costs that have to be paid so public servants and their service is reduced to offset the costs?

TO support one set of beliefs, is it appropriate to demand that all exempt well owners suddenly have to come up with an estimated $3,500.00 to perhaps $6,000.00 for a water meter, plus the monthly charges AND provide year around access to meter readers? Now think about that one for another minute, Upper County and High Altitude well owners? Access? PAY for snow removal now or get fined from the new exempt well water utility meter readers because they are going to HAVE to read them every month?

Science doesn't support this type of action. Yet because someone might BELIEVE that it COULD be possible, it HAS BEEN PROPOSED.

Has ANYONE EVER seen so many for sale signs? AND I've NEVER seen so many houses and property for sale. It appears that the ONLY properties moving right now are either short sale bail outs, bank owned repo WAY under market asset exchange dump specials, or property tax sheriff sale auctions.

I just talked to someone YESTERDAY that picked up 10 acres for $8,000.00 at some kind of auction!!!

So here is another poor representation and analogy of science colliding with beliefs and assumptions.

Science and evolution, and animals in the food chain of life happens to be one discussion which might draw a unique and interesting parallel here. Those of us who are not vegetarian can enjoy chicken, beef, lamb, and... PORK? OK, it's legal and for sale and is common fare for most Americans. But think about the evolutionary food chain for a minute please. Piggies are actually higher on the chain than everything else on the list. But it's become traditional to use them for a food source. So I guess that is OK with most people? Yet from a purely scientific view, then it should be also OK to consume other animals along those lines? I won't disgust everyone with a list of what is traditional and OK in other countries but I hope you can see where you get a collision with true science going against tradition and beliefs.

Think about another example? I've seen many people enjoying nuisance imported feral wild English gray squirrels at a park. FEEDING them! So OK, that is probably fine.

But once again looking at science? Please tell me the difference between a squirrel and a black wharf rat? One has a hairy behind so that makes it cute? It's been quite a few years since I had to worry about specifics in the animal kingdom but I THINK they are both rodents, aren't they?

So I cranked around again about things that didn't necessarily apply to the water issue, yet I think it is important to see how old stale thoughts, tradition, and selfishness can interfere with science and all of us moving forward.

And while there are so many cheers for the great liberal blue team? Am I the only one that can remember what a wonderful job was done at, I think, The Democratic National Convention in Chicago in 1968? Mayor Daly did himself proud! Real fine example of liberal suffrage there!

Oh how I could go on. Red bashers? Vets? Blue vets? Proud to belong to the party of Hanoi Jane and her crew? Or "feeling rather chapped, quit it "TED""?

Said before, can keep up the red vs. blue game all you want. There's problems on both sides. Time to find some common ground and go forward.

Think we found it with the water storage issue. Look for ways we can make it work, get what we have all going in the same direction, and let us please work together on things that are possible.

A.
We Can Beat The Science "Thing" to Death byClem3 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
It really isnt that important because if we have another drought year the senior water districts or the Yakama Nation will ask that water use be curtailed and Roslyn will be threatened with another water shut off. You are certainly right about properties being for sale and plummeting prices. Its really convenient for developers and real estate people along with a handful of property owners to blame the moratorium for plummeting prices.

The truth is that prices started collapsing in 2007 along with high gas prices. The current price of gas at $3.29 per gallon means that the "commuter" to Seattle-Issaquah is dying a slow death.

The timber industry has also been hammered with the demand for the type of trees grown here dropping to almost nothing. More lost jobs.

The second-home market has completely collapsed leaving an excess of already built homes available cheaper than new ones can be built. This has been particular devestating to those involved in building in the upper county.

An aging population which I think is a problem in itself. How do you replace many long time residents as they pass on? I dont think any thought has been give to that at all. Many communities however have looked into attracting newcomers. I havent seen that at all from our local chamber-leaders.

Hinkle can pick up todays Yakima Herald and read the editorial on page D-2. The editorial suggests that more storage is needed. While it probably is needed particularly in the lower basin where agriculture will place more demands on water supply solving the water problem will only help the Upper County marginally.

It might not be popular but I will support the Teanaway Solar and also any wind generator project for the Upper County. We should be looking at the very minimum of getting cheaper electric rates in the Upper County with these projects. If you were to go to the Netherlands or Belgium there wouldnt be all this hand wringing over wind generators. Cle Elum could easily have 2-4 on existing city property. Hinkle should look at getting highway funds and other grants like CDBG. Combing a CDGB with state highway funds and local money could be used to revitalize our downtowns.
RE: We Can Beat The Science "Thing" to Death byAureliux3 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
Yes.

And lest we also forget the education funding in this state from timber dollars, the falling prices of lumber, and lack of new construction will also hammer the school budgets real hard.

SO CWU is allowing a lot of attrition due to budget constraints and those with that kind of income from tenured faculty positions will not be replaced so there's another chunk of our community going down the drain.

Has anyone else read the weirdo fringe far fetched claims against wind energy by the hard line anti wind pseudo "greener than thou" environmentalists? It's scary.

If I could find out where they all hung out on the weekends I could make a fortune selling tin foil hats to keep Big Brother from reading their minds, along with EMP protection...

And I know that real estate started taking a major public dump in '07. And it wasn't the well moratorium that did it then. It may be having some effect now. The moratorium will stand because some in power believe we need it. And that awful thought process and study known as science really doesn't support it.

But I suppose it's OK as long as some of those who are elected think we have to have it. Kind of like a power trip in some ways. Red doesn't want it, so Blue says it has to be, then red complains, blue justifies, and the litigation specialists line up in a starved anxiety lathered frenzy thinking about the fees they can collect no matter which side they are on.

I am going outside to play now, I promise to behave. I'll even wear a bike helmet when I ride.

A.
Plenty of Water, Again... byAureliux3 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Noticed the rivers were running a light weak coffee with milk added color today. Their level was rather high, too. Sad to have so much surplus during a certain time of the year, and not enough for another...

SO! Someone out there knows more about things than "I" do, so please let me propose something I kind of thought of and add to it if you like.

Wind Gen first. Make electricity. Crack water at a lower altitude via electrolysis. Hydrogen will flow uphill. Water won't.

So high uphill wherever the hydrogen can go, set some turbine generators that will burn it. And what comes out? Almost perfectly pure near distilled quality water.

Which could then be either stored, sent down through more water pressure driven turbines to create more electricity, or directly into irrigation lines. Or back into the body of water it came from.

There has to be a way for this to work. And it shouldn't be too hard. There are places where they have to grind coal down to powder to fuel turbines to make electricity. My idea should work a lot better.

There ought to be some high canyons around here that would make decent storage lakes once they are properly dammed up. Shouldn't be ANY negative environmental impact from creating something like this.

I just drove back from Yakima this afternoon. There's TONS of dusty little canyons down there that would make fantastic storage ponds.

So? How about that? Anyone else ever thought of something like it?

A.
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