The Drought of 2010

By lordoflys
(3 votes) (report abuse)
From the summer of '04, could this be a sign of our future?

Yes. It's too early to predict disaster, but if not 2010 maybe 2011 or 2012. And none of the elected politicians with responsibility in this county seem to be sensing any need for action, or even preparation. It's politics as usual. While state and federal agencies have studied the Yakima River Basin nearly to death, very little action has actually occurred despite overwhelming  evidence that additional water storage has been needed for decades, that water has been over-appropriated, and that this need has grown exponentially.

What is at stake is the livelihood of thousands of residents who depend on agriculture and ag-related businesses. The efforts that have been spent on fish recovery and recreation-based businesses are also very much at risk. Declining snowpack and resultant surface water loss increases the threat of wildfires. Living things in the basin become stressed and many die. You know all this already. Then why hasn't there been any action?

The federal agency controlling water flow on the Yakima River is the Bureau of Reclamation. Irrigation entities rely on Reclamation to monitor and control water flow. These entities, like KRD, Roza, and KID and many more smaller water operations jealously guard their water from other water users (scores of local organizations sued to keep Roslyn from legally obtaining water, for example). As far as increasing the water supply itself? Well, other than a grass roots effort at Black Rock the local water people rely on the feds, without taking much initiative themselves.

The Preliminary Integrated Water Resource Management Plan for the Yakima River Basin is final. County Commissioners took part in these Arboretum talks. Didn't add much, but at least one of them attended as well as a few KRD people. The trouble is, this plan is flawed. Though additional storage is addressed, it draws out the planning, then funding, until the actual construction of this storage is put off for years, possibly decades, if ever. In other words, there is no sense of urgency. And, in the end, we shelve yet one more study of the Yakima Basin onto the pile along with the scores of studies that have proceeded this one. Studied to death.

It is interesting that the people who construed these talks and this study...and even the ones invited to participate in the actual meetings....all work for agencies of one sort or another. And that the ones most affected by water policy...farmers, ranchers, orchardists...were most notably  absent.  Call it what you want but to me it looks like agriculture will have to collapse before anyone pays any attention to this issue. I will say that the local politicians WERE quick to jump on the moratorium bandwagen AFTER the fact. Should we expect any more than this?

Farming, Water, and Foreclosure/For Sale byCleElum11 month ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I know this is an over simplified notion, ... but it's just too bad that a Willie Nelson Farm Aid kinda situation can't be done, even to the point of bringing these issues before congress like Willie and John Mellencamp did that culminated in Congress subsequently passed the Agricultural Credit Act of 1987 to help save family farms from foreclosure. O.K. ... I got my silly moment for the day over with and feel better now ... lol
RE: Farming, Water, and Foreclosure/For Sale bylordoflys4 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
CleElum, I think that is a wonderful suggestion. And one that would be so much appreciated and needed. Because that need is coming. And soon. Something like this, thought of out of the box, is right on the money.
We have got to do what we must to support family farming. We are all in this together and Kittitas County residents must find a way to get through this next crisis. And it's always easier when you know you have other people supporting you.
Could very well be. bywhatatrip4 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
IF we don't get some moisture soon, this could be the year that senior water rights holders hold permit exempt wells accountable by restricting or cutting off use. They do have the power and given the BS coming out of the BOCC and our local legislators, this might be the year the seniors let them know who has legal rights and who doesn't. It is too bad that the greed of the local "bottom fishing" developers have caused this to happen. Any developers with senior water rigths will have an overwhelming advantage over those who don't.

I've read through some stuff on the "super ditch" approach and it is way too late for that to be of benefit now and it may not be very workable in the future. The simple approach proposed that requires a purchase of senior water rights is both fair and simple.
RE: Could very well be. byJeremy4 weeks ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
That is a typical response from anyone supporting the moratorium. Simply complaining like these outside groups will not work anymore, that mentality is not needed. Purchasing Senior water rights is very costly and drawn out, ask the state they know. For the average person it is not a practical solution.

Its not to late for ideas to the so-called problem, there are a lot of ways and ideas to put DOEs main arguments to rest. Their use of the moratorium just happened to be the worst idea, it doesn't help anyone; senior water right holders, homeowners, or the county. It just helps the anti-everything groups.
RE: Could very well be. bywhatatrip4 weeks ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
So Jeremy, are you saying that you acknowledge the truth behind the underlying theory of the super ditch theory? Do you have any idea what the implication is? Think about it. "Super Ditch".

As for water rights for rural exempt wells. The County is responsible for making sure the quality and quantity of water are adequate. In order to assure quantity, they should be the ones purchasing water rights to cover all the exempt wells in the county. Cities and other municipalities have to cover their water consumption with a water right as do farmers. It is only fair the counties also be responsible.

It has been pointed out many times that this all started with a local "inside" group and supported by local groups. The only outside groups involved were asked to lend their expertise. The outside groups who want to steal water from senior water rights holders outnumber the defenders of senior water rights at least 6 to 1.

Your first hurdle will be putting to rest the claims of the Yakama Nation. We know what they will accept. How would you propose to mitigate their claims?
Anti-Everything Groups? byfishmonger4 weeks ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Lumping anyone who casts doubts on the sustainability of our water resources as members of "anti-everything groups" is a "typical response". Bring something to the discussion...data, comparable situations to other communities in the West having water issues, opinions or personal observations. For example, I work in the upper county and know a longtime landowner who has been experiencing discoloration in her well water for the last year and a half. She lives in an area where 11 wells have been drilled in the last 15 years. Coincidence? I'd be curious if anyone else in upper county has noticed anything unusual.

Please post to the Garry Owens threads if you just want to stereotype people who may have another opinion about an issue.
RE: Anti-Everything Groups? bymoonlightmile4 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
If Garry Owens is Larry Nickel, I can tell you from years of watching (and sometimes participating) in council meetings, that he has been concerned about water rights and water shortage for YEARS and is quite knowledgeable on the subject. As you would expect, he's been quite vocal on the subject as well.

Sometimes he makes himself an easy target but give the man credit where credit is due.
Water byJeremy4 weeks ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I havent looked to hard at the super ditch idea so I really wouldnt be the guy to ask, but at least its a better start than mortorium. And yes these anti everything groups only want mortorium, they have never presented anything positive to the discussion. Presenting data to support your complaint is one thing but just using the water issue to achieve your groups political needs is just dishonest.

County purchasing water rights to offset PROVEN curtailment would not be a bad start. Another good idea is drilling wells that arent extremely shallow, drilling past confining layers that seals off water addresses DOEs issues directly. It might take a few good ideas to create a great game plan, but any ideas that get away from mortorium are better than what the state has done.
Fresh thoughts on Fresh water? byLance4 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I have yet to comment on the situation that is playing out in Upper Kittitas County...and although some of my thoughts may not be that fresh, here are a few;
1. The majority of wells drilled in recent years are for lots intended as second homes. The average person moving onto these lots are not there on a regular basis and they don’t irrigate because they are not there to cut the grass, prune the shrubs etc. so consumption is very low.
2. The DOE doesn't have the funds to do a hydrologic study in the area and they hesitate to borrow funds because the Upper Kittitas Aquifer is unlike most others and it would be especialy expensive if not impossible.
3. We don't have one big aquifer like you find in text books. We have individual aquifers contained by basalt, granite, shale, sandstone and clay in most cases. Some are linked together but many are not. Ask any driller a simple question like "what depth do you anticipate to find water here?" and he is not going to give you answer because he does not know. He can pull up local well reports, look at the lay of the land, hire a water douser but predicting water is harder here then most places in the world because of our Cascades geology.
Go to the DOE's well log viewer and plug in a section, township, range and 1/4 search and you will see wells at various depths and yields going though material that in many cases don’t correlate even though the wells may only be 100' feet away from each other.
4. Ask the drillers or DOE just how many wells have been deepened in recent years in upper county...few and far between. And the wells that were drilled deeper are in areas that one would not be surprised if they went dry because it was shallow or on top of a dry ridge. I know their are exceptions and I know that parts of the Country and even parts of our State are having water problems but I just can't believe that Upper Kittitas County development has been halted because of speculation, threats of lawsuits and governmental disagreements.
Cat is out of the bag bywhatatrip4 weeks ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
It really doesn't matter at this point whether there is a moratorium or not from the standpoint of banks and smart people. Banks and people looking for property know there is a water problem and that senior water rights holders can call the shots. The moratorium could end tomorrow and what bank in its right mind would lend money for a home knowing that the supply of water is in doubt or could be cut off. The only way to assure availability of water is by holding a senior right to water.

It is true that many homes built in the UC are second homes. But to what extent can we depend upon that being the case down the road? The days of living the high life are over. Most of these homes were speculation homes, homes used as investments or retirment homes. The speculation bubble has burst, homes as an investment is a bust and baby boomers will be selling their primary residences and moving into their retirement homes or vice versa. I predict there will be less second home/vaction home activity in the future and many more will be living in those homes.

The Yakima Basin really is one big ditch. DOE could do a study and find areas that will not impact stream flows immediatlely which would result in some areas being more likley to not impair. Where ever those areas are, they will have to be recharged and if it takes years to recharge, that means less flow to other areas while they are recharging. The study could show that there are areas of water that are not connected to the larger system and that they depend upon recharge. In those areas, development would have to be limited so comsuption doesn't exceed recharge.

The Yakama Nation's stand is that any withdrawl not mitigated is impairment. We could challenge that in court as was done with surface water rights. How well did that work out? Litigation has been going on for more than 30 years. The last 10-12 years there has been no new water rights. I suspect the same would happen if ground water was challenged with the exception that there would be no new exempt permits allowed until the study is complete. That brings us right back to where we are now. We have a moratorium on all non mitigated withdrawls.

I could be wrong but the simplest and easiest and less costly course would be the water bank route or, if I were younger and had lots of money, I would start my own company buying and selling rights to water. Or I could also lease and lease out rights but I would definatley want the government making some ground rules that I could depend upon.
KVtalks System Test bywhatatrip3 weeks ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
This is a test of KVtalk. Comments to Letters to the Editor are not working and there have been no comments here for a couple of days.

Again, just testing.

I see that it works.
RE: KVtalks System Test byAureliux3 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Hi 'trip. Yeah it does appear to be working now, I tried to log in a couple of times Thursday PM but it kept booting me out.

Have to wonder if this is going to end up on the web site main page again?

Letters to the editor have always been rather dicey here. Now it does appear that you have to be a paid subscriber to get anything to post after the news articles.

Wish I'd kept a list of the ones I wrote that were never published.

A.
RE: KVtalks System Test bymoonlightmile3 weeks ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
Just testing. I was booted out as well. I preferred the old format.
RE: KVtalks System Test bylordoflys3 weeks ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
Whew...Finally got on the thread but can't get into the paper...And a lot of water related issues to discuss.
RE: KVtalks System Test bycountrygirl113 weeks ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
Ditto. here now and yes there are some issues. I think you just have to register and then you can comment on the news articles. Have not tried yet, it's on the 2do list. I do hope the powers that be return KVTalks to the home page of the DR. So hows the snow pack?
RE: KVtalks System Test bywhatatrip3 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
I can get to the newpaper's free edition here:
http://dailyrecordnews.com/news/

It allows you to look at articles that are on the recent headlines. But there are no comments on the articles.

Also from the front page ( http://dailyrecordnews.com/news/) you can go to the opinion section, "B" section, "Sports", ect. But there are no comments for anything that I can find there either. I know that there were lots of comments on letters to the editor but none have shown up; they don't seem to have them attached yet.

I think anyone can register for the free version and get access to letters to the editor. If I remember correctly isn't there a log in for KVtalk?

There is also a VIP logging. I can log in there using my online account that comes with my subscription to the delivered newpaper. Looks like it still uses the old Olive Software format. It allows you to flip through the whole paper page by page. It is not working real good either.

It is all a bit confusing. Hopefully on their front page they will give some instructions and information in the Breaking News section - Welcome to our New Website.

And yes, there are some new articles about water that are very interesting. Seems the 163 acre feet of water is enough for 2037 new homes if used only for domestic purposes but if they are to water 1/2 acres of lawn also, the 163 acre feet will only allow 600 new homes.

I know from my own watering, I use about an acre foot of water for each 1/2 acre of lawn or pasture.
Comments??? byCleElum13 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Between the articles of:

Suncadia offers water to offset Upper County wells
http://www.dailyrecordnews.com/news/article_78474206-1804-11

Kittitas County pulls occupancy permit from Suncadia Home
http://www.dailyrecordnews.com/news/article_9da41b7c-1873-11

Both of which have "NO" comments(totally amazing to me) as well as none of the Letters To The Editor having any comments, I'd say there is something wrong with the system.

I registered, logged in, and posted comments the other day but have yet to see my comments posted.

Been just waiting to see if anything ever has a comment posted on it. So far, it seems that only KVTalks is posting comments ...
RE: Comments??? byAureliux3 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Oh, comments. Yes it appears that to now comment on the regular news stories it's required to be a registered VIP member as in subscribed and paying rent to comment?

Thought at first that pertained to the TALKS section but that now does not appear to be the case.

Something went haywire with the news story comments for me a while back. Would get the message that it was under consideration for posting, then they'd never come up. So I quit.

And here I am!

A.
RE: Comments??? byCleElum13 weeks ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
well .... that sux, ... gotta pay(VIP)to post an opinion on the regular news ... no wonder there are soooo many comments posted, no one can afford to with such a robust economy ...

Good thing we can still post here on TALKS section or it'd get as quiet here as it has in the regular news section.

Your comments on news stories in the past may have ended up in the vast-void known as the "spam round file".

Guess if the regular news has anything worthy of posting on by the "NOT-VIP'S" it'll show up here ...
Snowpack and water levels bylordoflys3 weeks ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Well, because countrygirl11 asked, here's today's report:

Storage is 92% of average (1981-2005).
The NRCS Snotel sites are reporting 69% of average in the upper basin and 87% in the lower.

We could use a big, nasty 5-day blizzard.
RE: Snowpack and water levels bycountrygirl113 weeks ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
a blizzard ABOVE 3000 feet. I'm ready to garden not shovel and move snow around. 'course if we don't get more snow my gardening could be limited to due early shut off of KRD irrigation water. Thank you, lord' for the up date on the snow pack.
RE: KV Talks System Test and Comments byIngmar3 weeks ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
You do not need to pay to be able to post story comments at www.DailyRecordNews.com. That was just one of the issues we had to work out as we migrated content from our previous Web site to our new site. You do, however, have to register — FOR FREE — to be able to comment on stories ... just as you do here.

The VIP registration on www.DailyRecordNews.com is to allow full access to the complete print version of the paper via PDFs. Only about 20 percent of the paper's content is ever posted to the paper's free Web site.
RE: RE: KV Talks System Test and Comments bywhatatrip3 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Will previous letters to the editor and comments to those letters to the editor be posted and/or accessable?

I see that there are no comments for any of the letters to the editor prior to the ones now posted.
RE: RE: KV Talks System Test and Comments bycountrygirl113 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
I tried to register, followed all the steps and supplied all the required information. The site indicated the registration went through but when I try to log-in the dialog box that pops up says there is no account in that name.
RE: RE: KV Talks System Test and Comments byAureliux3 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Things still do not seem to be working quite right, the FREE REGISTRATION for news comments must still be misfiring but I'll give it another shot tonight.

Got the FACEBOOK pic links up OK on the front page, have to wonder why that one little paste job for KVTalks won't stick too?

A.
RE: RE: KV Talks System Test and Comments byIngmar3 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
I'll have our techs look into this. In the meantime, try using your KVtalks sign on and password and see if that works.
RE: RE: KV Talks System Test and Comments byCleElum13 weeks ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Ingmar,
I tried using my username/password from KVTalks first to log on, but it didn't work. I had to register, but it worked and logged me on.
Comments byIngmar3 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Our techs are checking into restoring the comments on previous stories that were lost during the content migration.
RE: Comments bywhatatrip3 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
One of the nice features of KVtalks is the statistics in the upper right hand corner of the page that gives us some "posted" data, how many "veiwed" the post and how many commments were made. That information would greatly enhance the "letters to the editor" section as it might any other sections and articles. The number of hits to a particular page is pretty easy to incorporate.
RE: Comments bymoonlightmile3 weeks ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
I've been waiting for the pending "confirmation by email" of my registration. It's been several days and so far nothing.
RE: Comments byIngmar3 weeks ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Moonlightmile's issues with signing on appear to have been fixed. Please let us know if you encounter other issues with the site.

Thanks,
In defense of development bylordoflys2 weeks ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The upper county exempt well moratorium is essentially just an indication of the new reality facing water users from Roza to Easton. Those with water subscriptions dating back before May 10, 1905, the majority living south of Roza Dam, are content to watch the unfolding of the first water war knowing that sooner or later even senior rights holders will be vying with each other for seasonal water. Groups such as the American Land Rights Association are easy to discount, owing to their "anti-anything that resembles liberalism" approach and history shows us that government stewardship of public lands and resources, though flawed, works better in the long run. The history of irrigation in the Yakima Basin is the best case in point.

The papers are full of short plats and other land use changes including the resurrected Marian Meadows PUD in Easton. This development would add up to 443 units on 520 acres. It may be a last gasp effort on behalf of the landowners to grandfather future development opportunities. I'm all for it, if they can meet compliances. Developers will be as rare as Dolly Varden Trout in the upper county in ten years. Real Estate people will have less "inventory" but the value of homes with, yes, senior water rights wells, will explode eventually. Don't fight this or other attempts by landowners or developers to do what they can at this late date. We all would do the same, and the long term consequences of what is occurring in the UC, though not well understood now, will be much more restrictive in the future. We can only speculate what the future will bring but this is why someone invented science.

To a great extent, though, we are still masters of our own destiny (and I'm borrowing some metaphysics from Aureliux here). Let's allow developers and land owners the opportunity that will be denied them shortly. Forget about protecting the "environment". What is left of the "environment" will be protected in perpetuity by the Washington State Bar Association. And there will be a shift in location for "environmentally deprived" western Washington residents who feel a need to build 2nd homes in sunny Kittitas County. Me? I'm buying up all the Vantage property I can.
RE: In defense of development bycountrygirl112 weeks ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Unless the developer has senior water rights the City of Easton which annexed the property at the request of the developer does not have enough water to service that many homes. If you read the DEIS the septic system the developer plans is, in a word, crap. Further, the drainage for the area runs down slope to the city drinking water well. Then there's all those homes the developer wants to put right in the airport runway approach zone. Since the county has not done the airport over lay it is required to do the developer feels houses can be built there, the FAA doesn't think so. Any attempt to mitigate for wildlife will be useless, the DEIS states all the alternatives will eliminate most of the wildlife habitat. It's a bad idea.
RE: In defense of development bylordoflys2 weeks ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Countrygirl11, I take it, then, that you are against this particular project? And excuse my ignorance, but are there even 443 homes in Easton now?
RE: In defense of development bycountrygirl112 weeks ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
I'm not against developement. The zoning there is rural 5. If the developer wanted to create 104 5 acre parcels I would not have a problem with it. This county does not need more housing developments, what is on the ground at this moment has not been built out and there is over 2 years inventory of homes on the market.
Read the DEIS.
RE: In defense of development byJeremy2 weeks ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Its funny how the same people who are against property rights are also against development, building, and drilling wells. Do you guys understand that if a builder wants to create lots that comply with the county regs that its their investment, not yours. After a while the anti-everything attitude just sounds like whining.

People need to have the ability to build on their property, have jobs related to building, and have their own water supply. Our county's economy is connected to all of these.
RE: In defense of development bycountrygirl112 weeks ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Read the DEIS just issued for the Marion Meadows project - if the developer can mitigate ALL the major problems addressed in the DEIS then he should be allowed to move forward. It may mean he will not be able to cram as many homes into the 520 acres. This is the kind of development that the county was found noncompliant with per the GMA. Just because there is a stay does not mean it is right to ignore the laws of physics, install a septic system that is flawed, eliminate wildlife habit and expect a city to supply water to a project it does not have. Under your thinking it is apparent you feel anyone making an investment in land has a right to recoup their investment. There are serious water quantity and quality issues with this project.
RE: In defense of development byClem2 weeks ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
In light of the collapsing real estate market and the total over supply of lots available from Sapphire Skies and other developers I wonder why the Easton developers want to move forward. Between Cle Elum Ridge, Roslyn Ridge, and Suncadia there has to be at least a 50 year supply of lots available for building and sale.

I am with Countrygirl11 in that I am not against development, but before we make the same mistake in cutting up Easton Ridge why not use the current inventory of lots that have already been developed. On top of that shouldnt we be encouraging development into these areas that can be serviced with modern water, sewer and natural gas? Nothing could be better than have 100-200 homes being built annually from the existing supply in and near Cle Elum and Roslyn. I think its really wishful thinking that we are going to be able to develop and sell more lots in the Upper County. If someone wants to do a little research drive out to Ocean Shores which still has an abundant supply of lots that were developed 50 years ago.
1977, 2001 and 2010 bylordoflys1 week ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
These years are all strikingly similar in some unfortunate ways...first and foremost '77 and '01 were severe drought years. 2010, as warm as it has been (have you noticed?) and with a current insufficient snowpack, looms potentially as nasty as these. What happened in 1977 and 2001...and will in 2010?

1. Salmon smolts, without sufficient water flow, get stranded and die. Fish and Wildlife and the Yakama Nation have, historically, come to the aid of salmon and steelhead during times of drought. I might add that they never get enough credit for their sacrifice and hard work. They are really, really, good at what they do.

2. Wheat, timothy hay, and cattle are the most seriously affected agricultural areas affected. In 2001, 25,000 acres of orchard crops were also taken out of production. THIS YEAR could mean in excess of One Billion $ in wage and production losses. Easily. Human anxiety and suffering cannot be measured in units.

3. Hundreds of forest fires could burn thousands of acres of our Ponderosa Pine forests. During the '77 drought 194 forest fires were reported. "The Thirtymile Fire", by John Maclean, should be required reading for all Central Washington State High School seniors. If you are a resident of Kittitas County you should read this book.

4. Expect the DOE to immediately suspend the upper county exempt well moratorium as soon as drought conditions are announced officially by Gov. Gregoire. Soon after, a number of emergency well permits will be granted...I estimate 200 to 300.

These are all viable prophesies, based on historic facts. What can you do?

Look at the way you use water..or more specific, look at the way you WASTE water. We all do. And it is the most precious of all our natural resources. Water your plants with the dishwater. Get rid of your lawn. It just attracts the dog next door. Put in native plants, stone, gravel, sand. Thats what Kittitas County is made of. It remains to be seen what Kittitas residents are made of. My guess is that we get through this stronger and smarter.
RE: 1977, 2001 and 2010 bywhatatrip1 week ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
In our dry climate, the only kind of home that would work without a lawn would be a mud hut. Dirt and dust are not harmful to mud huts and they can't burn down nor are they expensive. However, if you are going to live in a conventional home in this dry climate, you will need a lawn to control dust and to act as a fire break. If you let the land "go natural" you will have tall grass that has to be cut for fire protection. Mowing a fire break is extremely dusty without green grass. I have neighbors who don't have water rigths, they mow and that mowing creates huge dust clouds. It take a lot of water to wash all the dirt off their bodies also. They have a terrible time with dust in thier homes.

The American way of life requires huge amounts of resources. My guess is ... this "crisis" is a Sunday picnic compared to what lies ahead. Of course, global warming or climate change could just as easily bring us a lot more precipitation. It appears that is the trend with California getting it this year. When we get it, they don't and vice versa. El Nino at work. We should always plan for the worst of times and be thankful for the best of times.
RE: 1977, 2001 and 2010 bycountrygirl111 week ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
I understand this is one of the strongest El Ninos in 50 years. If we get no more snow pack for the winter I won't be doing any annual flowers. Which means cover the flower bed with mulch and NO WEEDING - yeah - no fun colors tho. Since I grow most of my vegies I am concerned about an early cut of of my irrigation water. I am conceerned for all our cattle and ag folks not just in Kittitas County but thru out the whole basin.
Oh, A Mud HUT! Yes... byAureliux1 week ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
So you rang my out of this world non typical metaphysical bell on that one, so here I am to comment. While I'm not an expert on these, I would like to please be allowed to attempt to politely wax on, somewhat eloquently on this fine subject.

There has been a big problem in this state getting financing approved for alternative building methods. I have heard that it is getting better. Once had heard a rumor that that do with something about large timber interests having a bit more than their share of representation, most of us were permanently stuck with conventional western style stick frame construction.

Other locations in this fine world of ours have not had this problem. And there are some really good m u d h u t solutions out there.

Have time to poke around searching for things if you are interested look at the rammed earth construction experiments in Australia. I found it fascinating. Plus they are fire proof and extremely well insulated because of their thermal mass AND can be made to withstand occasional wet humid weather without structural degradation.

Another fine concept that sort of fits the bill for good ecologically sound home construction is underground. I got to visit and tour some of these in Montana. May not be good for everyone, but I thought it was a fantastic solution.

BUT my all time favorite and what I think is fantastic is the straw bale concept. Not exactly mud hut ideology but it actually has some of the same basic concepts of extreme thermal mass. AND if they are done right they are ALMOST fire proof.

And I do know about dust and the problem of mowing to create a safety zone on land that isn't irrigated. Has anyone else ever seen a swept sand Japanese garden? Stacked stone sculpture? Erect cast masonry designs?

Our local stone and gravel company has a pretty good course unwashed sand. I spread it around about 4" deep in the fall. Weather hit it, figure the moisture drove the fine parts of it deep. Rest did not blow away. Didn't look bad, and I used some large drain gravel to edge it with. No mowing, no fire problems and it actually looked better than letting everything be half wild and whacked back into semi submission.

This water thing still has me somewhat puzzled in our county. I can understand the snow pack difficulties and surface water shortage and rationing of irrigation water. BUT when I checked into all this years ago and had my tanks set up, I found I could still get truck loads of water for irrigation no matter what was shut down and rationed out. SOMEONE in town still had water rights and a set of ponds that they could pump out and deliver out of, and they did. It cost me around $250.00 for a full load. Could get a load of clean water suitable for in house use for a little more, charged per cubic foot because it came out of the city supply.

Looking at how much water is blowing down the rivers from rainfall that can't be captured I'd think it would be to all of our best advantage to get on the band wagon to propose more water storage for irrigation.

But that is just my own humble little opinion.

Have seen the cherry trees, they are ready to bud. It's too early, going to be one whale of a frost battle this spring.

A.
RE: Oh, A Mud HUT! Yes... byJSmith1 week ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Thanks you for your input on these. I've seen some of the underground home constructions myself - they're pretty amazing. It could only be a benefit all the way around to allow more alternative construction methods, rather than mandating strictly stick built. Not only can it be far more cost efficient, environmentally friendly, and safer as you mentioned - but aesthetically, there are some amazingly beautiful and creative alternative buildings out there, some made from completely recycled materials like tires and bottles; and like the undergrounds - they not only "blend in" to the environment, but they preserve the vegetation. I would love to see these types of projects happen in our county. Moreover, I would love to see more community involvement like has been done with local straw bale buildings; maybe workshops of a sort for our youth, so they can have something to "build" upon for their future. (pardon the pun).
On other alternative building materials... byAureliux1 week ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
One of the best that made a lot of sense to me was level cast concrete tilt up construction. Never seemed to be able to get it approved for home construction though. Apparently it was too efficient and much less labor intensive to build that way. When I researched it way back when, the bottom line I found was that I could have a concrete house but it had to be cast in place and no one would loan any money on it.

But they can be insulated and can also perform well as thermal mass against extreme heat ranges.

Plus, anything that doesn't ever have to be painted or patched is a serious advantage.

Once saw a decent simple proposal for a two story pentagonal structure with what they called a drop center wagon wheel style suspension supportive roof and ceiling. At least that is what I think it was called, it's been over 20 years. But it was built all interlocking and everything supported each other piece which by itself was self supporting so it was virtually earthquake proof. Plus the foot print it had from the mono pour foundation would have kept it up if the ground ever got into that seismic liquifaction that once had everyone so excited in a few places on the left side of the hill a long time ago.

Once saw some interesting work done with empty aluminum cans and mortar for walls that worked pretty good.

The used vehicle tires is just about totally out now, apparently they've discovered some kind of weirdo chemical that leaches out of them that is toxic to just about everything. Think it was one of those big happy nature shows on TV that did a special on how all those wonderful sea life producing tire reefs were all going to have to be pulled up because they were poisoning the waters. Sounded great at the time though.

SO the last artificial reef structure I knew about being build in the sound was out of old china potties and sinks.

A.
RE: On other alternative building materials...and future salmon runs. bylordoflys6 days ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
There are some amazing alternative building methods employed in this County. Related to this...Im sure you have seen the information about the Bloom Box on the news and on 60 minutes. This advanced but simple fuel cell technology will make the grid obsolete. At current electrical rates in WA State the BB can produce electricity with very little or no environmental damage and run on any fuel type, including methane gas. It could make hydropower obsolete as well. In-stream diversions could be placed in rivers for irrigation and there would be no reason to keep the dams up in the Columbia River Basin. Could the historic salmon runs come back as a result?
The Bloom Box Fuel Cell on 60 Minutes byAureliux6 days ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228923n&tag=contentM

Pretty interesting, looks like it works, will have to keep an eye on this one!

A.
RE: The Bloom Box Fuel Cell on 60 Minutes byJSmith6 days ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
I didn't know that about the tires...was just looking at someone building with them just last year. I guess he didn't see the nature special. This bloom box definitely looks interesting. I'm with Mr. Skeptic, though, in that the big corps will take it and run, it'd be nice to see someone invent something like that and not have it turn into a big money issue; I would hope it really could benefit us environmentally as well as financially. But I don't see that big corporations will let go of big profit for the sake of mankind. I think if they do market this thing, we'll be paying out our a** for it.
RE: The Bloom Box Fuel Cell on 60 Minutes bycountrygirl115 days ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
I'm all for alternate building material, energy, water storage and most of all POLITICAL parties. As long as we allow our elected officials to be influenced by the money they receive for election campaigns we will continue to get the timber companies, big pharma, AMA, Real Estate-land companies, bankers, wall street, etc. putting it to the little guy. Those business are neccessary but do they necessarly need to make millions before anything starts trickling down? I'm now climbing down from my soap box.
Hydro Electric Generation, Saving Energy, Saving Water byAureliux5 days ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
One of the best and most simple of all examples of passive solar energy usage is an old school clothes line for drying laundry. Humidity and air movement around here can get things dry in a hurry. UV rays in the sun are an incredible natural anti bacterial agent. And I think it's less stressful on the fabric than tumble drying, so things end up lasting longer for better wear.

I don't have time to do the preliminary figures but just imagine the quantity of electric clothes dryers in this county and the amount of KW used to keep those things tumbling around here in the summer. It IS all water through the dams.

For saving energy costs I have noticed quite a few people lately switching from electric clothes dryers to LPG/Nat. Gas. AND if I had my way, I would NEVER cook on an electric range again for the rest of my life. Still think a gas range is a cost saver but I can't stand cooking on electric burners.

It is also not too terribly hard to build a box on the ground, point the face of it to the sun, get some water tight pipe in it, figure out how to get it in there just right so the water won't trap and move in the right direction, then put a window on it. All kinds of ways to get these things to work, just can't let them freeze. No moving parts. Not that horribly expensive to make. The principle that gets things going in there to circulate is called the thermal siphon.

I'd say around here it would be fairly easy to get 100% hot water heater savings from an efficient thermal siphon system for almost 6 months of the year.

And there is a way to create these things for swimming pool and hot tub systems. Just have to kind of be careful when the sun is out full and bright all day in the summer because you will get more heat out of them than you like. So you have to know about proper pressure vents and temperature control valves.

When I first started fooling around with a nice passive no moving parts thermal siphon? Someone decided I needed supervision and called the health department and the building inspector. They fell all over themselves beating a hasty path to my door with clip boards and paperwork. They were convinced that I was going to somehow take a straight through system, create some kind of internal heat exchanger, load it with anti-freeze, and kill off my family with toxic hot water!

It was a major hassle. They actually made some pretty heavy threats and other nasty manipulative shenanigans of what they were going to do to me, my house, and my family if I didn't immediately cease and not hook the darn thing up to the house. Which included a red tag and certifying my structure as unfit for habitation. It was a real divine pleasure dealing with them, please let me assure you!

Another fine example of people with nothing better to do, and who probably stayed up all night worrying that someone else might be having a good, creative time.

BUT that was dealing with things in another place, a long time ago. Maybe times have changed? One can only hope.

A.
RE: Hydro Electric Generation, Saving Energy, Saving Water bylordoflys4 days ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Hmmm. Good story, A. Can't say I ever had the inclination (or the skill) to manipulate machinery. I trapped some quail on Riverbottom road once and penned them in the back yard of our house on Vuecrest. It took about 4 hours before the neighbors started complaining. They all escaped and ended up sitting on my neighbors garage...then I had to get rid of the chicken wire...at age 13. And, yes, times are changing.
Drought Thoughts bylordoflys4 days ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Finally, the absence of snowpack is getting attention from decision-makers. Gov. Gregoire has transferred $4.1 m from a disaster relief fund for drought relief efforts, presumably for well digging and water rights leases. This is just a drop in the bucket (sorry) and won't provide much relief but is meaningful just the same. A wet spring will help forests and early crops as well as preserve reservoir levels. Then a really nasty drought can be averted. Even a mild drought, like the one in 2005, can cost the state nearly $1 billion. Bad ones cost much more. It shouldn't take a rocket science to figure out that expanding our reservoir capacity, as in enlarging Bumping Lake, is, in the long term, saving money. Lots of it. In these economic times, though, it takes a politician with foresight and boldness to push through such an expensive public works project. These days spending money, for whatever purpose, attracts criticism.

On March 10, 2005 The Governor declared a drought emergency for that year. It will be interesting to see if a similar declaration will be issued this year....though I doubt it. There hasn't been any funding requests from this county or others to my knowledge..or formal declarations of impending doom. "Drought is a regular occurrence in the Yakima River Basin, and appears to be increasing in frequency." That quote is from the latest joint study by Reclamation and Ecology. I don't know what that cost the taxpayers but I would have gladly provided that information for free.
Recharge/Snowpack on the way? byAureliux4 days ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
http://www.noaa.gov/

Look this up and poke in the zip code for Ellensburg, check out what appears to be on the way! More winter.

Anyone else besides me remember getting out in the snow on June 6 last year? I took some pictures of it.

Wonder if this is going to be another one of those years where the studded tires won't want to come off the vehicles until the 4th of July?

Noticed the rivers were getting rather high yesterday, sure would be nice if there was a better way to keep that surplus back where it could be used and enjoyed by everybody later in the year.

A.
RE: Recharge/Snowpack on the way? bylordoflys4 days ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
A, yes, a few good storms between now and the start of irrigation season might get us over the hump. Storage is 90% of normal and releases are at 63% of normal. There's a lot of water being flushed down the Teanaway and Swauk right now, though.

The Cle Elum hatchery salmon fry are also being released into the river in a week. A million of these plus the wild fry will be competing with trout for insects before they head to the ocean. A million salmon ought to raise the river level infinitesimally.
TWSA for 2010 bylordoflys15 hours ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Chris Lynch, who works down at the looks-like-a-prison Reclamation office in Yakima has thrown out a TWSA number. 77%. Which means that after all of the senior water rights holders get 100% of their water, junior rights holders, which are what most of Kittitas water subscribers are, can expect 77% of what they need. Now you would think that Chris would throw out a conservative number, error on the side of caution so to speak. Wrong. In the past, when Reclamation, after studying water flows, snow pack, weather forecasts, and other data, announced TWSA's that were too conservative, farmers in turn left fields fallow, ploughed up field crops, and, in a few cases, vinyards and orchards were cut. Later, when late snowfall arrived TWSAs were revised upward. Farmers and orchardists were irate and lawyers took over.

So now, the modus operandi of Reclamation is to throw a number out and revise downward as conditions change. 77% is a good number as it can tip either way. Nobody really knows what to do at 77%. To plant or not to plant. Sort of like playing russian roulette with God.
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