OAK RAIL STILL CLOSED DOWN after suspension

By GarryOwens
(11 votes) (report abuse)

OAK RAIL STILL CLOSED DOWN after suspension. A 5 day suspension for violating WA law(s) expired, then the front doors are chained and padlocked shut, then a FAILURE to pay utilities shut off notice. Today 16NOV09 and the doors are still chained shut.

22 NOV oak rail still shut down! byGarryOwens3 months ago (9 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
22 NOV oak rail still shut down!
moonlightmile bymoonlightmile3 months ago (8 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Do you suspect a grand re-opening after the first of the year or will there be peace on 3rd & Pearl evermore? Maybe a church will purchase the building...
RE: moonlightmile bygorilla in the room3 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse)
The Oak Rail has stayed closed longer than it's suspension as it is fighting some of the accusations by LCB.
Rumor has it that the Rail may never open again as the owner has lost a lot if income due to the closure (as noted by the power shut-off notice). It is however, ONLY a rumor.
If they don't open again, who can blame them?? After all the negativity that has been thrown at them, the bad reviews by bloggers and the bad publicity (not to mention a nasty neighbor who calls the cops everytime a person gets rowdy) who would WANT to re-open.
My concern is the overflow from all the customers that now goes to other businesses. Yes, good for income but also bad for crowd management and a quiet evening out.

We'll see what happens.
RE: moonlightmile byamandor23 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Evermore, I hope. A1
Negativity?? byGarryOwens3 months ago (9 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Dont kill the messenger. THEY made the violations of the city county state and federal laws and they were held accountable. Where's negativity in that? They must follow the rules just like everyone else has to - why should they be exempt?
The Messenger? OH Yeah the m e s s e n g e r. byPhoenix Rising3 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Or is it only the results of a one man one issue single minded campaign against a perceived threat to the commercial value of one certain run down old building which is FOR SALE?

I can go into ANY alcohol serving establishment in this fine county and be over served. Have sat for a while in several recently during happy hour and have seen it done.

Bringing in extra heat from the enforcement arm of the Liquor Control Board to shut down any establishment for over serving is like shooting fish in a barrel. You can't miss. But maybe in some easily persuaded people's minds you might end up looking like a hero for a short period of time.

May as well propose prohibition again? We saw how productive that was for our country once upon a time. Think you can legislate morality? Good luck.

No behavior or real long term benefit will be served to our fine city of Ellensburg with this action. It might get it a little further away from "The Building" which, once accomplished, this issue and thread will suddenly dry up and blow away.

I also see a real compliment within the context of this thread to our fine members of all the local law enforcement agencies. Having a higher than average arrest record for driving under the influence means to me that they are working hard and are quite successful at what they do to protect our community.

There are SO MANY better things to talk about which will have a real positive long lasting impact in our community.

Will be interesting to see the statistics over the next few months of DWI incidents, accidents, and hopefully no fatalities from increased vehicle traffic going to other places that offer Oak Rail style entertainment.
RE: The Messenger? OH Yeah the m e s s e n g e r. byCWUalumni3 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse)
Are you aware of the fact that a petition with 100 local shop owners downtown was presented to city officials regarding this issue?
Fed up ............ bytrab3 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Since the Oak Rail has shut down, people are having fun in residential areas through out the whole town. I like to personally thank Bishop, Nickel, and Downtown Task Force for my lack of sleep my family has received. The downtown area needs a night life, not a dead zone.
RE: Fed up ............ bymoonlightmile3 months ago (10 votes) (report abuse)
You have the option of calling the police. That's what we had to do a few years ago. Many calls, meeting with the city manager and finally with the city attorney. There had been enough complaints that we were finally assigned an officer for the house in question and he did a good job. The party-til-you-puke renters moved out, the absentee landlord sold the house and a very nice family moved in. This took a year or two so don't expect any quick resolution.

You may need to buy a video camera...
RE: Fed up ............ byGarryOwens3 months ago (9 votes) (report abuse)
Possibly that could happen, it was bad near my home 2-3 blocks fro CWU. I took audio and video of those "boom boom" cars, plate numbers etc and turned them in (several times), it stopped. We have noise ords. for a reason - to be used. Some businesses think the community exists to serve THEM, in reality it is because of the community that these places exist at all. Keeping all the "crap" in one place so it is easier to manage is not only wrong it's UNETHICAL. The people of the State of WA, county kittitas, city of Ellensburg, dont care how you operate your business - as long as the peoples guidelines are followed.
I Suspect ... byCleElum13 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
That party house's will sprout up all round the area. Being a party, the location will change from time to time making it harder to do anything about it.

The higher than average arrest record for DWI will drop as it will be harder to find drunk driver's now that they're not coming from known a place.

Drunk driving traffic patterns will change and innocent people will be involved in accidents with drunk drivers that wouldn't have been otherwise.

In short, a problem that was connected to one place will now be spend out all over the area and innocent people who's lives would never have been affected by a problem that was centralize, are forever changed for the worse.
RE: I Suspect ... byAureliux3 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
Excellent commentary, Thank You Very Much!!! 100 businesses signed a petition to put lives in danger to confront a problem that apparently can't be solved BUT it won't be in THEIR back yard.

Great reasoning.

Keep track of the DWI count through the holidays. It WILL change.

A.
RE: I Suspect ... byMaxtodon3 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
I suspect too and agree will be bigger spread out mess plus drunk drivers wont only kill and injure themeselfs. maybe 100 plus big business owners will sign petiton for world peace adn well see how good that does.

But everyone notice how bad Obie lost to LN in the eletion? WAS A LANDSLIDE. oh wait a minute. who won the council seat?
re: Great reasoning. byGarryOwens3 months ago (8 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
You also had the same opportunities to attend the same meetings of city councils etc as we all did (those of us who attended). You also had the same chances to voice your views and Great Reasonings at them as we all did. You had the same equal openings to use the American political forums, to excersize the same American Citizens Rights as we all do.

But you chose NOT to. Instead of investing a little time and effort...you did nothing to excersize your rights, or use the democratic process that what set up to use for the people by the people. We did. And we didnt wait until everyones backs was turned or in the shadows; we were very public and very visible and very upfront with our intentions.
RE: re: Great reasoning. byMaxtodon3 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse)
yes great reasoning and some of us do really always have a life and cant go to all the meetings because we also all have real life jobs that we have to go to and work for a real life and not pick on other busineses.
you dont have a real job or income or work do you.
RE: re: Great reasoning. bylarryisadb3 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse)
LOOK AT ALL YOUR POSTS IN THIS THREAD, EVERYONE IS 2 STARS OR LESS, PEOPLE DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!. BECAUSE THE OAKRIAL CLOSED THERE ARE MORE ISSUES CREATED THEN SOLVED (HONESTLY WHO CARES IF SOME KID GETS DRUNK AS HELL AND HAS TO BE CARRIED HOME? HES HARMLESS AND CANT BREAK ANYTHING, OR IF ITS LOUD SINCE THAT AFFECTS LARRY AND MAYBE 2 OTHER PEOPLE SO WHO CARES). KIDS WILL GO OUT TO BARS LESS CREATING MORE HOUSE PARTIES, WHICH WILL RESULT IN MORE THEN JUST 3 PEOPLE DOWNTOWN BEING BOTHERED BY NOISE, WHICH WILL RESULT IS MORE SPREAD OUT POLICE RESOURCES RESPONDING TO NOISE VIOLATIONS (POLICE DONT LIKE THAT THE OAKRAIL IS CLOSED, ASKEM SOMETIME). SO THAT WHOLE SENARIO IS AN OVERALL NEGATIVE AFFECT ON ELLENSBURG, BUT WHO CARES SINCE ITS NOT NEAR YOU (THAT IS UNETHICAL AND WRONG SIR). IT IS ALSO CREATING LESS BUSINESS FOR PITAPIT, HOT DIGGITY, STARLIGHT, AND THE SHOE, AGAIN OVERALL NEGATIVE AFFECT.
RE: re: Star wars. whatever that means? bylarryisadb3 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Your right if your the only one that votes with 5 stars that post will be a five star post. but if 6 people vote on a post and it is only 2 stars that is an indication that people do not agree with that post. hence all of larrys posts have 2 or less stars with about 5-6 votes each indicating people don't agree with what he is saying. I dont really know how to spell it out any more for you so god help you.
For larryisadb - clarification bymoonlightmile3 months ago (8 votes) (report abuse)
You referenced the number of stars Larry had in your Great Reasoning response post. You need to read the vote totals. The stars have no significance other than to show people where to click to indicate their agreement with a post.
Star Wars for larryisadb bymoonlightmile3 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
I just experimented. In the past if I agreed with a post I just clicked on the first star. The last post I agreed with I clicked on the 5th star and all 5 lit up. Lesson learned. A post can have one vote and 5 stars.

And the beat goes on...
since there is a word limit.... bylarryisadb3 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
so now the oakrail is closed and might or might not open again ;). do you think people will stop going to bars? of course not. they will just go other places and get as drunk and do the same stuff. so my question is that, since The Cam-Recording Crusader is so concerned from protecting downtown from over-service and drunk drivers, will he start going to other bars (ones he isnt 86ed from) and go inside/film outside and call the police/call in LCB about people being over-served and drunk drivers? Im betting he wont, because he doesn't care about the people drinking to much or drunk drivers. he just wanted the oakrail closed and those were a mean to his ends, but as you read in my last post you can see that HE didn't accomplish that the federal government did.
Man i hope it opens up again and is louder then ever for The Cam-Recording Crusader, so he can call the police about how much it is bothering him (even though he is up himself recording people), or he can have some of his friends call from a few towns over again since the police know hes full of shi*.Man i hope i don't get stalked for writing this. and remember Larryisadb ;)
For the record.... byGarryOwens3 months ago (8 votes) (report abuse)
THE LIQUOR CONTROL BOARD SHUT OAK RAIL DOWN FOR VIOLATIONS OF LAW AND CODES. Nobody made them violate those laws they chose to violate laws and codes. Nobody walking around with a video-cam made them over serve someone or someones. Now tell me logically sensibly how does that make ANYONE but oak rail responsible for that?
RE: since there is a word limit.... bylarryisadb3 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse)
garry/larry YOU ARE WRONG, the liquor control board closed them down for 5 days for over-service. That was all liquor control said they had to do for that violation. They have stayed closed because of the lack of a fire suppression system. So please get your facts straight. and logically and sensibly tell me why a kid out on his 21 run, who is out having a good time not causing trouble but might be a lil to drunk, but surly not falling down and throwing up should be pulled out of a bar and written a $1000 fine for drinking to much? (even though he didn't have a drink in his had when the pulled him out). because that was the violation they were closed for

PS. So are u gonna answer if you are gonna start bringing heat on other bars to try to get them violations for over service? since u are so concerned with with over-service laws after all.

pss. the palace has had more written violations then the oakrail the last 2 years. why aren't you ever over there trying to record they "mayhem"?
3 million budget prob? byCWUalumni3 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
oops sorry wrong discussion
Re: Since there is a word limit, Oakrail, et. al. byamandor23 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Haven't posted for awhile, but now I guess I will really get blasted for saying what's on my mind. To all who have posted here and mostly to larryisadb (not sure what the db means, but don't think I want to), the Oakrail demise certainly seems to sweep folks up into emotional frenzy. Personally, I am relieved that the Oakrail is shutdown. I am glad Larry finally made his case to someone who paid attention. I doubt there will be any additional violations, accidents, tickets, etc. because the Oakrail can no longer babysit the drunksters. If the moving party houses cause noise disturbance and disorderly behavior perhaps the issue will become personal like it is for residents at 3rd and Pearl. There is nothing wrong with establishments that cater to college students, but the Oakrail appeared to be "the" spot! Perhaps now the consequences of distasteful and disrespectful behaviors will be shared fairly and equally among the other establishments. If you don't like it in YOUR neighborhood get out your camera, stand outside your home until early am wishing you could sleep like everyone else, put yourself in harm's way, watch your property be vandalized, not to mention all the other substances deposited at your doorstep. Then, when no one hears your legitimate complaints keep up the taping and escalate the entire, sordid situation up the governmental chain until you finally (after months and months) get someone's attention who can and will do something. I'm sure all the bars/tavern's have their share of over service and other violations, but the LCB appears to have overlooked the Oakrail for a very long time. Granted, Larry has a less than stellar reputation, but that is no reason to ignore legitimate complaints. Larry did what he had to do, and regardless of the actual, official reasons for closure it's OVER, I'm GLAD, and LIFE GOES ON. Let it go folks. I'm sure Larry will offer up something of equal or greater controversy value soon. A2

P.S. The "stars" mean almost nothing unless, of course, you want them to.

P.P.S. Haven't we long known that one bad (drunk, disorderly, dangerous) apple spoils the barrel for everyone? The Oakrail spit out way more than it's quota of bad apples. So, that 21-out-for-the-birthday-bash will have to celebrate elsewhere, and there's always another elsewhere.
This Thread is about oak rail law violations. byGarryOwens3 months ago (9 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
oak rail shut down and nothing else. I am not Mr. Nickel. If you dont like this thread or its issues - thats unfortunate. If you dont like Mr. Nickel start a thread about that person. But by posting them here just makes you look like a fool.

On another note: Once again I remind everyone that the only ones responsible or culpable for OAK RAIL violating ALL THOSE LAWS and codes is in fact THE OAK RAIL. Nobody forced them to overserve, nobody forced them to violate laws, that was the OAK RAIL's choice to do that. I fail to see how that makes Mr. Nickel or any other person(s) to be credited for a Liquor Control Board closure of the OAK RAIL. My personal comment on accusing others as responsible for OAK RAIL VIOLATIONS is - grow up and be a man or woman and take responsibility for your actions. If the OAK RAIL DOESNT LIKE VIOLATIONS and the resulting fines/closures - follow the rules like everyone else does.
RE: This Thread is about oak rail law violations. bytiredofsmalltownpolitics3 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
You may not be Larry Nickels, but you sound as ridiculous as he does! For those people that agreed with Garry AKA Larry, your lost in your own delusion too! Many post complain of the reputation the OakRail had because it was the last stop of everyones night, but where did they come from before making the last stop to go dance? Probably from home because it is cheaper to drink at home then go downtown, otherwise its The Palace, The Tav, The Starlight (most likely not Lilly's because they are another late night destination). So unfortunately, the oakrail take the rap for everyone elses continuous serving. Also to highlight the particular night in question that resulted in the overservice infraction, security video shows the 21 run participant didnt have a drink in his possession, but of course someone was out to get the Oakrail and will give them hell for anything. It is not illegal to be in a bar drunk, just to have an alcoholic drink in your possession, which will come out when they protest their infraction. Another side note, the reason for the lengthy closure is a matter of personal matters for the owner, a creditable person said his son is very ill and is providing his financial resources for the better cause of his sons health.
All you people have no idea what the downtown bars are like, you are all in bed @ 8 up on radio hill. For the people that do live down down town, not by Lincoln Elem. or by the fairgrounds, well you know what the city zones places as commercial areas and residential areas, you should of looked for a place where there wasnt BUSSINESSES. Those people that live on Pearl St. you knew there was 5 bars within a block radius of 4th street, stop trying to change downtown and move out, it will be a lot easier for you. Bigger concerns should be why we cant keep a business open downtown?
All you people that think you have a clue why dont you actually come downtown and check it out, instead of sticking your nose up in the air and acting like you know anything!

Tired of Small town politics!
RE: This Thread is about oak rail law violations. bylarryisadb2 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
The thing is the other bars dont follow the laws exactly to the letter. EVERY OTHER BAR IN TOWN OVER-SERVES PEOPLE. like i said before the palace has more LCB violations then the oakrail, so why arent you on them about over-service or any other bar? Please answer that question garry/larry.
RE: tiredofsmalltownpolitics bylarryisadb3 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse)
thoes videos show nothing at all. just larry filming a bunch of drunk kids walking around NOT CAUSING PROBLEMS. if there was as much mayhem going on as larry makes it sound like you wouldn't be able to turn around without seeing a pile of puke or some kid throwing a rock through a window.
tiredofsmalltownpolitics byGarryOwens3 months ago (8 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
lol thats exactly what we did, then you complain about it, then you say go DT and check it out again, and gripe again because we did?

Now, after oak rail closed, DT is pretty nice once again. Footage of how it was from Oct 2008 to Oct 2009 are posted on youtube.com http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ellensburg+oak+r some of those vids also show other places in violation(s).
try counting again bygorilla in the room3 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
pss. the palace has had more written violations then the oakrail the last 2 years. why aren't you ever over there trying to record they "mayhem"?

Were these violations from LCB? Were these violations from the EPD? The Palace Cafe and Saloon has had 2 violations over the last 2 years where the Oak Rail has had substantially more.
RE: try counting again bylarryisadb2 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
im talking about LCB violations, and the palace has had serving to minors and 2 over-service tickets, where the oakrail has only been written one over service ticket. epd violations, the oakrail has gotten way more (Ie noise violations).
Good grief byMC2 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Y'all are going to drive me to drink with this nonsense- even without help from the Oak Rail or the LCB or anyone else.
Fair is Fair make some vids of your own byGarryOwens2 months ago (8 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
So where are your videos of how great it is at oak rail then? Show me one where the patrons are having a good time responsibly drinking. How about one where the doorman or bartender stops an already drunk man from entering saying "sorry sir we cant serve you alcohol here you are already very intoxicated you will have to leave". How about one showing the oak rail IN COMPLIANCE. Show me LCB award for the oak rail's stellar record. Show us a review that say the oak rail has a pleasent aroma, is very clean, and has pretty good food at the grill, show us a grill, show us the dishwasher machine where the water is heated to 180 degrees in compliance with health codes for public safety, can we see some of the glasses used for drinks oh thas right oak rail uses plastic cups. You mentioned "fire supression system" can you show a photo of oak rails rear fire exits? I am sure if you really wish to defend oak rail's 5 star rating they wont have a problem with anyone getting those photos to post here as evidence.

Its only fair you have the same opportunity.
RE: Fair is Fair make some vids of your own bylarryisadb2 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
i was done posting on this but wow this stupidity cant go unchallenged. Where is my proof that people at the oakrail had a good time? I think the 200+ people that were there friday and saturday nights is proof enough people think its a good time. Where is the LCB review of compliance? over the last 2 years the LCB has come in at least 6-8 times, and found nothing wrong (except for the 21 run guy who got and intoxication ticket when they had it out for them). and About the grill? who actually goes to the for food really? (The grill is in the kitchen fyi). im def not sayin the oak has a 5 star rating, but its not even close to as bad as you make it out to be. The oak shouldnt have to defend themselves from you, I thought people were innocent until proven guilty in this country and dont have to video tape all there actions. your videos show ZERO about the oakrail out of compliance anyway. just a buncha people walking around on the side walks
BUSINESS FAILING ALCOHOL COMPLIANCE CHECKS byGarryOwens2 months ago (8 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
KITTITAS COUNTY-SEPTEMBER

BUSINESS FAILING ALCOHOL COMPLIANCE CHECKS

September
29 Oak Rail Bar & Grill 300 N Pearl Street Ellensburg
29 7-11 1001 E University Way Ellensburg
29 Central Market 201 E University Way Ellensburg

BUSINESS PASSING COMPLIANCE CHECKS

September
29 7-11 Store 112 W University Way Ellensburg
29 The Tav 117 W 4th Ellensburg
29 The Starlight Lounge 402 N Pearl Ellensburg
29 The Palace Cafe 232 N Main Ellensburg
29 Dollar Way Mart 1404 Dollar Way Ellensburg
29 Albertson's 705 N Ruby Ellensburg
29 Safeway 400 N Ruby Ellensburg
29 Arnie's Horseshoe 106 W 3rd Street Ellensburg
29 Happy's Market 207 W University Way Ellensburg
29 Frontier Tavern 710 Parkway Ellensburg
29 Super 1 Foods 200 Mt View Dr E Ellensburg
29 Flying B #27 1307 Dollar Way Ellensburg
29 Fred Meyer 201 S Water Ellensburg
29 Pilot Travel Center 1512 Hwy 97 Ellensburg
29 18th Street Deli 1802 N Walnut #1 Ellensburg
RE: BUSINESS FAILING ALCOHOL COMPLIANCE CHECKS bygorilla in the room2 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
thank you for posting this. It is greatly appreciated. Whether or not it is about what place is closed for what reason...the fact remains that somewhere and sometime, people are overserved. The Oak Rail got busted. Let's keep in mind that all places that serve alcohol are required to be in compliance with liquor laws. Yet, a person can only do so much when they are working at an establishment as such. One person can buy as many rounds as they like and give them to their friends. Those friends get hammered and people keep buying them booze. It's not easy being a bartender when you are doing your best to keep an eye on 80+ people. Those of you who have tended bar know EXACTLY what I am speaking of.
And to larryisadb...take note that even IF the Palace had more violations...they remain OPEN! How many of those violations happened within the last year? Much less 6 months? If you find out, post the results? thanx
And MC, my apologies to you if this is driving you to drink...just don't make a lot of noise if you do...you may have a camera shoved in your face.
RE: BUSINESS FAILING ALCOHOL COMPLIANCE CHECKS bylarryisadb2 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
This is ridiculous. THIS COMPLIANCE CHECK CRAP LARRY IS POSTING IS FROM 2006 3 YEARS AGO. guess u just felt like failing to mention that hu? and this compliance check is for serving underage not overservice, this was the oaks last written violation. post all the truth garry/larry. Gorilla in the room. Last summer the palace got 2 overservice tickets in about 2 weeks because people got to drunk hurt themselves and had to go to the hospital. (this is why they stopped doing dollar shots). and over a year ago but less then 2 years they had serving to minors. I know all this from first hand knowledge.
Don't live next to a bar if you don't like the noise. byCWU Student2 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Why would you live next to a bar if you don't like the noise at night? How hard is it for you to just move. The bars are not going anywhere. Expect a lot of parties in the neighborhoods now due to the Oak Rail closing. This is a college town. There will always be those who act inappropriately, but the majority do not. Let people have their fun downtown.

And by the way, what are your videos supposed to show? That people get drunk? All i see in them is students leaving the bars walking to their cars. The only ones that i see acting out are doing it becuase you are shoving a camera in their face, filming them without their permission. Would you like it if the next time you have a few drinks if i followed you with a video camera trying to get you to say something?

There are much more important things in life.
CWU student bycarpetsharks2 months ago (9 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
If your here to party give uncle sam and mommy and daddy back their money and stay home.
RE: CWU student byCWU Student2 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse)
haha, so if your attending CWU you can't have a good time on the weekend? Grow up.
History common sense etc byGarryOwens2 months ago (8 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Perhaps you are unaware, thats not a bad thing, here is some history. The Hubbel bld. has been where its is and has always been either a hotel (1800s) or had apts for residents. The bld. is historical and has always had large plate glass windows. In contrast to oak rail which has been there since maybe 1980s. In order to operate in that corner spot oak rail agreed to certains terms or a "good neighbor" contract - which they breached many times with impunity.
Additionally, Ellensburg has on the books Noise Ords. created by the people for the people and validated by the City of Eburg, and the Noise Pollution act by the EPA and Dept of Ecology (federal). These laws were installed because of the way noise affects the people and environment(s) in the 1970s.
More importantly, in America it is the people who are in charge - not businesses or those with "money" - that would be fascist at best by deffintition. So it is the people of the community who are the priority thats the American way.
No matter what the business they exist for and because of the people, the people do not exist for or because of the business and or College. The simple, logical, arithmetic of this situation is very obvious - if a place is not acceptable by the community that business will not be frequented by people and that place will feel the affects. Likewise, a place that is not in compliance with community, city, county, state and federal laws/ords.(or the voice of the people) will suffer the same.
However, if a bar operates in compliance they will make money AND the community will support them and thier efforts.

When out of compliance or in violation of laws the community has several options and 1 is to use the local police to enforce them, another is the WA STATE LCB. If those fail to remedy the situation over YEARS of talking then its time to take LEGAL action(s). One way is to gather visual proof - ie video of what takes place. Anyone in America has the right to film openly in public, whether its a 5 alarm fire or someone overdosing from alcohol poisoning due to overservice. If I am filming in public and you (as example only) commit a crime - who is the bad guy here? I am obligated by law and common decency to report it or I may be held accountable as well.
AT NO TIME were cameras shoved in anyones face or blocking thier movments, so too they had the option to walk away.
We found visual proof that EPD were not only ineffective, but flagrantly abused thier position by not acting on reports made by citizens, so up thier chain of command we went. All of those legal and constitutionally sound methods.
IF a place has no fire supression system or fire exits, and has by thier own count 200-500 people inside, you are risking the lives of everyone - and for what? - money. This also is evidence of EPD and EFD either not doing the will of the people or on the take. Imagine a car salesman selling a car he knows has problems that could lead to a fatality to you or yours and autorities did nothing even made jokes about it with the car dealer, wouldnt you take action? Remember those fast food places shut down due to E Coli same thing.
Which brings us to public health and safety, vomit is a class B biohazzard as is human feces, urine, blood, semen, etc. When its everywhere for blocks even worse during a Swine Flu pandemic. How could any decent person not say or do anything?
The same laws that apply to DT shops are there for the residential areas as well they only have to take action(s) to enforce the laws already in place for those reasons.

Possibly the best thing about America is if people dont like a law, they can change it - legaly and thru a method set up in 1776-78. So if a bar wants to operate outside the laws, they can make attempts to change them so they ARE allowed to serve booze to a person until they die, so they do not have to meet such stringent health codes they can create a petition with signatures showing others in agreement to that, they can make video of how ok it is and justify why it is not thier problem if people they overserve and the patron winds up in the ER. You all have that right - JUST AS WE DO.

As it stands by law and by common decency if a person walks in to a bar already intoxicated they are required by law to TURN THEM AWAY and simply not serve them - a simple phrase like "we are sorry sir but we cannot serve you here and you have to leave for tonight", but the choises made by oak rail was to risk the mans life for another $5.00 drink in plastic cup. Worse EPD allows it to happen by standing idle.

On a personal note: If a person wishes to die that is thier decision and I have no say in it, but when they decide to die and cause me damage as well - NOW I got a say in it. Stop overserving my friends and loved ones, stop overserving my fellow Americans, and follow the rules like we all have to - you aint nothing special or above the rest of us. Clean up that rathole bar, get rid of the stench inside, use real glasses and have a dishwasher that kills germs/viruses on glasses, sanitize those brass poles, have some fire exits and a sprinkler system for people's safety, OR close the bar down.
RE: History common sense etc byCWU Student2 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
Giving video evidence to the police is one thing, but putting them on youtube is another. That is only meant to embarrass those on the video, which is not right. Every City/Town has an entertainment section in the city meant for people to go when they feel like heading out on the town. Having these areas helps to limit the noise in other sections of the city. Would you rather have the majority of the problems/noise confined to the downtown area or have it even more spread out throughout the neighborhoods.

Personally, i would much rather see an area of the city (downtown) where people can go and limit the noise elsewhere so those who do not wish to go out can have a good nights sleep.

Its also funny how many of the people on here are fast to blame the students for problems in the downtown area. I have seen many "adults" in the 30-50 age range drunk downtown many times. Its not just the students who head to the bars, its a mix of everyone.

I most certainly do not agree with over-serving of patrons and do believe that it needs to be controlled better, but painting those who go out for a good time during the weekends as drunks is just wrong. I am a 3.8 GPA student double majoring in Business Administration and Political Science. I work hard during the week and let loose on the weekends. Its funny that people like carpetsharks believes students can't have a good time after being in classes all week long.

There are certainly problems that need to be fixed, every town has them when it comes to entertainment districts and bars/clubs. Shutting down bars will not fix them, just make it worse for everyone else who does not live downtown. I can understand how annoying the sound must get if you live near a bar, however, not to be rude, but the bars won't be going anywhere anytime soon. They make too much revenue for the owners and city.
RE: History common sense etc byamandor22 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
CWU Student: Looks like we have a better, informative, dialogue going now. Thank you. Also, appreciate the brief history lesson, Garry. However, I think you miss the point, CWU Student. Garry's point is not so much about the right or wrong of students choices, it is the Oak Rail itself, as an entity. I'm not convinced that is/was the ONLY agenda, but it is the ONLY part that counts in this particular discussion. The Oak Rail didn't play by the rules, rules that citizens created for everyone's protection. I understand that there are layers of issues with the label OAK RAIL, but please understand that the most impactful issue is SAFETY or lack thereof. People will always drink or drug or whatever they need to do, that is a given. We each have free will and can choose, but when our behavior negatively impacts others, i.e., your free will steps on my free will, difficulties arise. Again, appreciate attempt to actually communicate differences of opinion until we either agree or agree to disagree and move on. A2
RE: History common sense etc bySwesy2 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
Let's deal with some realities about the Oak Rail. First, Garry Owens is an absolute fraud.. He or she does not have the integretity to disclose his/her actual identity.

If this person is not Larry Nickell is not Nickell let them say so. If this sneak is someone else let them say who they are. Man-up, chickenshit, let us know who you are.
not always students bygorilla in the room2 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Personally, I have never blamed "just the students" and never will. It is a mix of EVERYONE. Men, women, locals, tourists, students, cowboys, and more, frequent bars. It's how it is. To place blame on one type of customer is wrong. And not all the blame belongs to the customer. It is also the responsibility of the person pouring the drinks. BUT...refer back to the post from yesterday about how difficult it is to keep an eye on so many people.
What does, however, make me question a person's sanity and sense of self preservation is when I hear them say

"I'm gonna go drink so hard I black out! Dude I can't wait!"

And yes, I have heard someone say that.

But you see, it's NOT JUST THE BARS. Let's not forget the city's way of bringing in tourists with Ellensburg's Winterhop Brewfest.
WooHoo!! 1,500 drunk people on the streets who then at 5 p.m.when the brewfest shuts down, go invade the local businesses with their drunken rude obnoxious loud behavior. Who is out regulating how much THEY drank?? Who is cutting people off when they have too much?? And don't tell me these people don't get drunk...oh, my friend, they do!

Where's the compliance with that? (i only know of ONE college student who participated with that last year. Most of the rude drunk people I had to deal with were not from this area)
RE: not always students byGarryOwens2 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse)
This is about the oak rail et al.
Sums it up? bylarryisadb2 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Oaks closed and not opening back up unless they get some new owners, not to much anyone can do about that. the oak was in compliance with all but one LCB walk through the last 2 years in which they got an overservice ticket (the palace has gotten more tickets over the last 2 years, so if oaks out of compliance then the palace extreamly out of compliance). They closed for 5 days (aka "paid there due to society"). stayed close because of no fire supression system (which was only required starting Dec, 1 2009). They got alot of noise violations (most of which were dropped), but the noise only bothered 1-3 people so who cares (larry accounted for something like 70-80% of all noise complaints for downtown.) kids will go else ware and cause problems. seems like this issue should die instead of bein kicked around anymore.
RE: Sums it up? byamandor22 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
So, LET IT GO ALREADY!

A2
RE: Sums it up? Yes, the Oak Rail. byAureliux2 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse)
Rather hard to let go of this little discussion. I've thought about it for a while.

The over serving issue? I've seen this happen SO many times in other places. But over sensationalizing it JUST for the Oak Rail is just not right. It appears to me that a little (un) professional courtesy was shown by an enforcement agency only because of some radical focused pressure, but which shall forever be hidden by a plausible denial because over serving is illegal.

As far as the pictures go? I have some decent cameras. My cam will shoot in total darkness, in IR range, out to about 25'. It has a zoom function which will pick out magnificent detail at long range. Have a Nikon DS-80 SLR digital. And still have my Nikon F-1 35mm SLR if I want to ever shoot film again. I could hide out on Walnut in the bushes on a Fri night, Sat early AM and see and capture some compromising action. Why bother?

A year or so ago, I actually offered to come down in that fine Pearl corridor and assist video man. Or snorkus. I got a nasty retort about how I wasn't needed, as "HE WAS TRAINED IN HAND TO HAND COMBAT." Ok.

Know where I live now? In college row, on Walnut Street, between a favorite watering hole for university students and all their popular apartment buildings. My bedroom window is about 10' off Walnut and I get to hear the kids walk up and down the road coming and going from their favorite places ALL NIGHT LONG.

I have lived here for over a year now. I have not had one problem with a university student. I have been invited to share a beer with them. I have been challenged to a game of pool. They have been interested in where I ride my bike, go kayaking, and what I do for a living. GREAT KIDS and I'm proud to be their neighbor. And even though I look like everyone's grandpa here I have gone to a couple of their parties when invited and it was great.

I could be out there bugging them with my cameras. Could try messing with EPD and the noise problems. I'm sure that if I tried hard enough I could become quite an unwanted nuisance here and get arrested too! Maybe even get a law suit started against the city?

I don't think so.

Can imagine, if video man had thought of it? Get a big Stanley Steamer pile of St. Bernard or Newfoundland Leavings on the sidewalk on the now famous corner of Pearl and take a pic of a college age lady walking away in a mini-skirt? How many individuals suffering from something besides a small hat size, too tight of a bandanna or head scarf would jump on the hysterical band wagon of hating college kids and immediately go off on who did what, where, and how?

SO the L-N, video man, and the rest of the Krumbolt Bilding Gang think they've won a round to protect our fine city.

Want to see what I take pictures of, some of them are posted here. Never actually made it into the ol' Rail.

DO work around town a bit. Have been behind and around almost every business in E-burg, Kittitas, Cle Elum, and Roz. There are several, that if I decided I didn't like them? I could take highly detailed close up pictures of what I have to step around in parking lots and alleys. Want a list? I'm not going to mention it. BUT if "I" wanted to go after a certain place with photographic evidence and whip up a lathered frenzy in the general populace, I suppose I could do it to attempt to drive someone out of their place of retail sales and service.

So now that the 'rail is down, what is the next grand adventure and crusade? Haven't read in the paper about any riots of well heeled commercial real estate people fighting and rioting down there over who gets to move in to that new and improved rail free business district.

A.
RE: Sums it up? Yes, the Oak Rail. byamandor22 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I stand corrected.

A2
OAK RAIL FLED WARRANT byGarryOwens2 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Not paying into what we ALL pay into? Maybe you havent seen the WA DEPT REV shut down notice. Bottomline it was the OAK RAIL that got the OAK RAIL shut down. Overservice, service to minors, not paying utilities, not paying WA state, and I saw agents removing booze etc from the nest of whores and vipers....er I mean the oak rail.
Aureliux byGarryOwens2 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Likes to argue just to argue they do it all the time have for a year here. She thinks she is the church-lady.
RE: Aureliux byrureallysure2 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Who's "they"? Is Aureliux a "she"? Or does the "x" on the end mean a group, i.e., they?
RE: Aureliux byAureliux2 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
HI! It's ME. Been called LOTS of things in my day, but never a CHURCH LADY! I'm still laughing my behind off on that round, thank you very much for the humor! Bet those unfortunate few that really know me on here are also finding it quite jolly.

But to answer what I perceive as an honest, forthright and decent question? I am male, 57 years old.

For some odd reason I thought that was on my bio on here, but it's not I checked.

The "X" on the end of Aureliux can be pronounced as eo, io, or kind of an essx sound depending on how you choose to enunciate old Latin.

But it's JUST ME, not a THEY, and life is good.

A.
for the record byGarryOwens2 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
a petition with ober 100 signatures from the DT area is not 1-2 people (and there are more). At least 5 were taking videos while others had different things going on. Before you pin this on one man (Mr. Nickel) look at the evidence: "you" say this is all LN's doing from persistence over the years - but if nothing happen in 2-3 years of it then what made the difference this time? Why after all these years ("you" say anyways) didnt the same results happen (which is nothing)? ONE REASON IS this time it was 200 people, videos, petitions, and then folks started seeing some actual action being taken FINALLY. So the key thing that got something done was 'the power of the people' presenting to officials NOT involved with city of ellensburg (ie WA state, Feds, and IA) in the forms of online links and mailed DVDs. People from the Mayor up to Senators were contacted, even the Dept of Justice. HOWEVER in the end, OAK RAIL was the demise of OAK RAIL and nothing else.
RE: for the record byCWU Student2 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
200 people out of 15,000? So .0133 percent of the population had a problem.
"student" byGarryOwens2 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Your American history and PoliSci education is lacking.
RE: "student" byCWU Student2 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Your common sense is lacking.
In a Republic like America byGarryOwens2 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Yes the "majority rules" but provisions are made for the minority as well - like compromise. Aside from that fact 'student' you overlook the fact of LAWS & ORDS already in existance - but for "some" reason they are not enforced - except on private/residential persons? This nation (or the republic)also has environmental regulations as well against noise pollution. By your 'percentage' example we see that you believe that a minority MUST suffer for the masses, or if you will that if the majority says wipe out all the minority Jews well thats ok. It aint ok. It is never "ok" no matter what the minority may be. I dont like communists but they have the right to be here and be active like everyone else - thats what makes America worth fighting killing and dieing for. As to the percentage of .0133 being the ones with a problem; no that was only the ones who spoke up and took action - the problem(s) were/are everyones.
RE: In a Republic like America byCWU Student2 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
"you believe that a minority MUST suffer"

Not at all. Everyone has the right to speak their mind, however this is downtown we are talking about. Its not like there is a bar in the middle of a neighborhood. There always need to be a place where people can go for entertainment and that usually falls in the downtown areas of most towns/cities. "Noise Pollution" is just fine as long as its downtown in my opinion.

As far as Law Enforcement goes. They are there to serve the public, not annoy it. There are some laws/ordinances in which departments may choose to not enforce fully. Why would they want to crack down hardcore on the entertainment downtown when it is a major source of revenue and entertainment for the city. Its not like there is a ton of entertainment offered in Ellensburg.

I don't see how you can compare a noise issue in downtown Ellensburg to killing "Jews".
Principle byGarryOwens2 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
its the same in principle. Also you miss the entire point. These are only symptoms of bigger problems. Again if you wish to bash me start a NEW discussion for that purpose. I guess I could have used the example of: The majority rules its ok that owning a slave who was African and that makes it ok? That up to 1950s the majority said it was ok to put epileptics in a colony? Or the majority said people with Downs syndrome can be married but not have children? The principle here is that 'majority rules' is NOT the American way. I am sure most Native American Indians didnt appreciate the majority nearly wiping out thier entire culture.
RE: Principle byCWU Student2 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
You realize that your comparing noise coming a from a bar to owning slaves right? There are times when the majority is in the wrong as history has shown, but there are also times when the minority is wrong. I am done with this thread for now as there is not much more that can be said.

Should i see you standing out front of one of the bars in downtown i will make sure to give you a one on one interview. As any good reporter knows, there are two sides to every issue.
CWU Student byGarryOwens2 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
When would you like to meet? I would have no problem giving you an interview. Your views would make for an excellent video. Just post when and where here please.
Lets be honest byDJTiny1 month ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Unlike some people I am not going to concele who I am or pretend to be some one I'm not. I am Pete "DJTiny" Lane, And for 7 years I ran the entertainment as well as DJ'd at the OakRail. First off the Security staff, Bartenders and myself did everything we could to comply with lcb and EPD. On many occasions we asked and or escourted people who we felt were intoxicated out of the Bar, and just as often if not more, turned them away befor they set foot in. Most if not all the complaints were form one person who had a personal grudge with the owner, that started from a blow up display during a rodeo weekend many years ago. As for the owners decision to not reopen the doors after the 5 day shut down I can only speculate. But I'm sure it has to do with the constant harrasment from the before mentioned individual. I dont know when or if the Rail will open back up but I hope it does, if just out of spite.
Oak Rail bySwesy2 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Since Garry Owen does not want to own up to his personal interest, let's deal with his stupidity regarding the Oak Rail.

When I first got here it was a taven I could not get into becase of my age. It subsequently becamse an off-shoot of a Seattle tavern, the Shire (that's where I first had a beer with Keith Gilbertson) After that it became the Cornerstone, and I don't remember any particular complanits about that tavern.
RE: Oak Rail byDougB2 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Huh... what does your post have to do with anything?
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