Water Wars I

By lordoflys
(6 votes) (report abuse)
Preparing for an evening BBQ

Now that we've sat back and awaited the outcome of the Thursday night meeting a few things can be said about local politics and water. First, the Kittitas County courtroom in Cle Elum was packed with emotions. Most of these by people whose livelihood depends on continued development. If you've read past postings you know that I blame the County Commissioners first and foremost, for not acting in good faith with the DOE. Also to blame is Representative Bill Hinkle for lackluster leadership and whose outlandish comment, quoted by the Daily Record, that out-of-state trouble makers are somehow responsible for the moratorium challenge the sensibility of every resident here. And, the flames of emotions are being fanned by others....namely Rep. Judy Warnick, another non-progressive politician who is quick to blame the Democratic administration but who shamelessly has her own hand out for government financial bailouts, including one that cleans up water pollution in her own hometown of Moses Lake.  She, of course, was at the meeting urging the County Commissioners to reject the agreement until the attorney general makes an opinion on questions regarding Ecology's authority has been made.

This is a rhetorical act. The Dept. of Ecology has the authority in my opinion but even if  the AGs office determines it doesn't, any such ruling will be quickly challenged in court by any number of senior water rights individuals and organizations...too many to list. And laws made to protect these rights date back a century. And now, Kittitas County is being scutinized by our thirsty neighbors in Yakima, Benton, Grant, Chelan, and other counties whose own commissioners were present at the meeting.

My question to Bill Hinkle and the County Commissioners is what do you say to the City of Roslyn, who has had to restrict water to it's residents 3 times over the past 10 years because of drought.? What about the citizens who utilize their legal rights to water on their farms, ranches, and homes and have for decades? Is the proliferation of exempt wells in the upper county affecting the amount of surface water and thus affecting their own water allotment? Or do you only represent the interests of developers, realtors, and speculators? Most alarming is that you are taking some sort of ultra-right wing land rights position against the present State administration.

Folks, Judy Warnick, Bill Hinkle and the commissioners do NOT know. Neither does the DOE, for that matter. But the water study that Ecology is inititating WILL.  Meanwhile, tensions mount. That tiny, agressive water group, Aqua Permanente, has filed yet another request to the Governor asking her to remove the "grandfather clause" that would allow exempt wells on lots that have already been granted at least a preliminary plat approval. This clause is part of the draft partnership proposal between DOE and the County. This is, in fact, a hardline approach and I do not agree with their objective in this case. 

You may strongly disagree or agree with what I've written but in any case your reply is invited.

Washington Farm Bureau byClem11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The Farm Bureau seems to be stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one. I like their most recent statement its kind of hard to figure out whose side they are on. Here it is and heres a link:
http://www.wsfb.com/issues/policy-blog/kittitas+county+well+ban


UPDATE: Kittitas County Well Ban
July 26, 2009 - 5:48pm
By John Stuhlmiller

UPDATE: WFB applauds the move to allow existing building permits to proceed forward under the law as it existed before the July 16 water moratorium. While we believe good communication between the county, state, and landowners is critical, this movement to honor vested property rights will avoid unnecessary financial and emotional harm. We hope talks will resume soon in order to develop a better understanding of the relationship between new exempt wells, existing water rights, total water supply availability in the basin, and any risks of impairment.
Senator Janea Holmquist is she MIA on water? byClem11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Not much so far from her. Maybe she's been on vacation or is getting feedback from senior water rights holders. She came out with Warnick and Hinkle initially on the moratorium and is usually aligned with the construction industry and the conservative wing of the Republican party. I find it hard to believe at times how far right Holmquist, Hinkle and Warnick can get at times. Check out Holmquist on her Teabag Protest video from April 15th.



http://www.senaterepublicans.wa.gov/holmquist/041509SJM8016.
Seeking Ways to Help the Local Home Builders byClem11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The "water bank" issue has been somewhat buried in this matter. I wonder if the commisioners shouldnt be in serious talks with Suncadia about getting some water so builders like Steve Senger arent left hanging. Suncadia has announced they would participate in the water bank. The commisioners should be working on a plan right now to secure water rights for maybe 20 homes which would probably carry the County into next year.

Are the commisioners really concerned about "water" or do they want to use the moratorium as a "property rights issue" and with the backing of the Central Washington Home Builders Association eventually want to challenge the moratorium through the courts?

There is supposed to be another meeting on Tuesday at 6:30 according to the article on the last meeting.
Water byJeremy11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The senator has done a great job in trying to defend our rights here. She has shown up to the meetings and stood up to the DOE.

After the last meeting DOE made it very clear that this is about power and refining laws. If they wanted to make this work they would at least have said that if the MOA was voted through that they would stop the moretorium. The DOE is stopping anything positive from happening, ego has gotten in the way of peoples rights. The petitioners have clearly shown that their intention the whole time was to frustrate growth. They got their moretorium and still they want more. If they really were concerned they would have solutions to the so called problem, instead they have more whining.
RE: Water bywhatatrip11 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
I did attend the hearing last Thursday and the DOE did state in no uncertain terms that they WOULD sign the MOA that night if the County withdrew the request for the AG's opinion. The Commissioners had an opportunity to get the moratorium lifted, that night and they refused. They simply stuch their heads back into the groundwater. As long as the County's questions are before the AG, DOE cannot sign the agreement in still be credible.

Let's face it, our County Commissioners are continuing to bungle their way failure. It is the Commissioners who have made this all about power and ego. They have an obligation to protect the rights of all citizens, not just the devlopers, well drillers and those who paid too much for thier land.

The solution to the water problem and many other problems is very simple, produce a Comprehensive Plan that is GMA compliant and obeys the laws that protect everyone.

The only fault I find with DOE is that they are liberals and liberals are known to give too much freedom to their children. DOE is the parents here and the BOCC are the spoiled children. DOE and the state should have cracked down a long time ago before the County Commissioners grew up to be spoiled delinquents.
Surface Water byJeremy11 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Roslyns water has nothing to do with exempt wells. If they think that exempt wells take their water then they should prove it. A study was done on the water in Roslyn and it showed alot. Their right was to a creek, they put their faith in the DOE and it hasent gotten them anywhere.

It was surprising to hear how Roslyn wants more restriction than the moretorium, since most of their revenues come from vacationers and part-time homeowners.
RE: Surface Water bywhatatrip11 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
I've heard it all now, a well driller who doesn't believe there is a connection between surface water and ground water ... LOL

Question: How did all that water get into the ground? Hmmm...must have boiled up from the depths of the earth and all that rain stays on the surface and doesn't go into the ground?????

You need to keep an eye on Little Creek. You can see the water flowing and then it "disappears" into the rocks. If I were to drop red dye into that water I would be willing to bet some wells in the area would be producing red water.
Surface Water byJeremy11 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
This is called "recharge" something that the DOE does not like to credit exempt wells for doing. Did you know that an exempt well on a septic system returns at least 80 percent of the water used. This is proven, seems like water is a renewable resource.

The question when it comes to interaction, is the degree of connection. There are aquifers that are called "isolated aquifers". Every situation is different, that is why some wells flow artisan, which is when water comes out of the ground under natural pressure, and some in the same vicinity do not.

Roslyn's water right is still a surface water right to a creek. Still there is no proof that any exempt well has taken water away from Roslyn.
AG opinion byJeremy11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
If you guys think that the DOE is in the right why are they so scared of the AG opinion? If the state is doing what it is suppose to do why ask the county to withdrawl their request, unless DOE knows that they are in the wrong. The county simply wants to know that they are signing an agreement that is legal.

It seems to me that if the DOE thought it was in the right from the begining they would have not threatened the county with a moretorium. This doesnt show an honest attempt to negotiate.
RE: AG opinion bywhatatrip11 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
The DOE is not afraid of the AG opinion. I assume you were in attendance. Did you not hear the DOE say that if the AG does not approve of the agreement, the agreement will have to be renegotiated? The issue of lawn watering would add a water right in addition to the domestic use of lawn watering if it is not a part of 5,000 gallon per day limit on exempt wells. Instead of dealing with domestic use from one exempt well, they will have to also figure in lawn watering. Lawn watering is almost 100% evaporated. The DOE is being gracious in allowing a loss of 90%.

I heard Jay Manning say he agreed with the guy who said the senior water rights holders would cut off exempt well use if their water supply is threatened and that it is not a matter of if but rather when.

The DOE had to threaten the County with a moratorium because our County Commissioners have a history of stalling, all show and no go so to speak. They have the same attitude the real estate industry and financial industry had before the went belly up and the feds had to bail them out in order to save our economy and the life savings and retirements of Americans. Our BOCC is putting exempt well users at risk of having their water supply cut of because of their greed infested ideology.
Republican Politics byClem11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Almost every elected official opposed to the moratorium is in the Republican party including all the Kittitas County Commissioners. They have allied with them all of the State Republican elected officials-Hinkle, Holmquist, and Warnick. They were encouraged at the Cle Elum meeting not to sign an agreement by other Republican Commissioners like the one from Benton County and now of course they want a decision by Republican AG Rob McKenna.

I am not sure though that a favorable opinion from McKenna is a sure deal. He may be persuaded and I think its likely that he will decide that a compromise of some type is in order to satisfy all sides somewhat. Right now this moratorium has had absolutely no impact on the local economy that went totally downhill a year ago. There are hundreds of buildable lots available in Suncadia, Bull Frog Road and Cle Elum Ridge. Every one of these lots has utilities including water. I would be surprised if more than 10 homes were started this year within 5 miles of Suncadia.
RE: Republican Politics byJeremy11 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse)
You are wrong about this having no effect on Kittitas Countys economy. For us who are in business we can see the effects, at the meeting many people in all types of businesses talked about the harmful effects of the DOEs reckless actions.

Remember buildable lots need access to water, if you have no well you have no loan, permit, house. This causes a chain reaction that ripples throughout our county.
Republican (??) politics byMattManweller11 months ago (7 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Clem,

I just want to briefly enter into your discussion. Yes, all the County Commissioners are against the Moratorium...and yes, they are all Republicans. However, it would be fair to point out that David Bowen also opposed the DOE and he was a Democrat. Additionally, County Commissioners from several other counties came to Cle Elum to protest the actions of DOE as well. So Im not so sure this is just a "Republican Politcs" as much as it is Eastern Washington politics trying to protect ourselves from Westside administrators who have a limited understanding of water, ag, and property rights.

Regards,

Matt Manweller
RE: Republican (??) politics bywhatatrip11 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Eastern washington residents are at war with each other over water and the "Westside" enemy are the mediators, the peace makers and peace keepers. The warring factions are senior water rights holders versus exempt well proliferators and the industry that supports reckless, irresponsible, and unplanned non-sustainable growth. Most of these are republican.

These developers don't care what happens to customer's water after they have been paid. All they want to do is drill wells, build houses and develop land. And Kittitas County Commissioners obviously don't care what happens the customers once the sale is made.

It is the state that is protecting the residents of eastern washington not the local governments of eastern washington. A professor that depends upon state tax dollars for a living should at least be able to admit that he doesn't know any more about water law than most local governments do. Too often this is what you get with "local control".
RE: Republican (??) politics bylordoflys11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Thank you for your input, Matt. It's appreciated.
AG opinion byJeremy11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I beleive the DOE said that if the opinion was not favorable for them that they would continue with the moretorium. All that this shows is that DOE is playing politics instead of doing their job.

DOE doesnt have to deal with the results of their actions they simply drive home. The commissioners realize that once the DOE re-defines the law here that they will never stop. The vast majority of people who were in attendance last Thursday are against this.
RE: AG opinion bywhatatrip11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
I don't know what the senior water rights holders would do if the AG rules against the DOE and the DOE didn't keep the moratorium in place until exempt well rules were in place to protect senior water rights. I suspect they would take it to court and the likely outcome would be a continued court ordered moratorium that would last for years or at least until new laws at the state level were written to protect senior water rights. What the developers, well drillers and supporting industries are doing is forcing new state law that will likely be even more displeasing to the development community in rural areas.

As long as the questions to the AG are on the table the DOE has to impose a moratorium. Should the AG rule against lawn watering being a part of the 5,000 gallons per day allowed per exempt well, the moratorium has to stay in place until that additional amount of water is accounted for. And it is substantial. To water a lawn of 1/2 acre for a summer will take 1.5 times more water than a typical rural resident uses for domestic uses for a whole year. So instead of DOE having to factor in 1 unit of water for each household, it will have to factor in the equivalent of 2.5 units per household.

Jeremy, I've said it before, if you want to stay in business, buy some senior water rights and you can drill, baby, drill and make a lot of money not only on the well but also on the water right and maybe even monitoring the water useage. It looks like DOE is going to tie a senior water right to each new well in the future.

My question is what about those of us who have old wells, will we need a water right to draw water when there is a shortage or will we also be able to buy water rights for our wells and draw water as long as other senior water rights holders can.
AG opinion byJeremy11 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Maybe you should read the exempt well rule again, its very clear on how much water can be used and what it can be used for. It also talks about how if a water right holder is claiming impairment, they have to prove it.

Like I have said before you have to have evidence. No scientific facts have been presented by the state. I think that a court would require at least one example of this so-called impairment.

One issue that has came out that needs to be looked into further is the loop-hole that the petitioners used to start this problem. Out of area anti-development groups should at least have a shread of evidence to present with their petition to make it valid. This has cost everyone involved a lot of money and time.
RE: AG opinion bywhatatrip11 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
If it was all so clearly written in 1945, then why is the BOCC asking for an opinion and why did the agri-business have to ask for an opinion with reqard to withdrawls for stock watering at feed lots? What the AG did was to clearly "rule from the bench" so to speak. That is something the right wing supposedly abhors.

The senior water rights holders have been able to show impairment. I have junior water rights and have been cut back 3 of the last 8 years. All that has to be shown is that the gage at Parker is low and people start getting cut off. The relationship between surface water and ground water is a no brainer and if need be, it will be shown in court. If surface water can get into ground water and someone withdraws ground water, common sense tells you that the water withdrawn will be replaced with surface water. All ground water comes from the surface and before that it came from the sky and before it got to the sky it was surface water. Now that is science.

The petitioners and their supporters you claim come from out of the area are local residents, some long time residents. In fact I would bet some have been here longer than you have. They were here when you were only a twinkle in your father's eye.

The cost and pain people are suffering are a direct result of the BOCC and their disregard for the rights of others.
How to prove 5k gal/day? byMC11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The law even as it sits now is totally unenforceable until meters are put on, and unfortunately relying on people's sense of moderation in the use of shared resources is historically unreliable. I suspect every well in the county will have one someday and this will become 'the new normal'. That may be not entirely bad news for Jeremy as he'd probably get more work from people he doesn't hear from much (if at all) right now.
RE: How to prove 5k gal/day? byJeremy11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
The law is enforcable if the DOE acted on it. Law already allows DOE to meter any well in the state. Read up on the laws that are already on the books.

If you think that it is such a mess up to this point what makes you think more laws and restrictions will magically make the state do its job?
water + politics = chaos bylordoflys11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
It is exactly because we have Homestead Act land rights Republicans Holmquist, Hinkle and Warnick (plus assorted commissioners)who have valiantly fought hard in a conservative piece of the state against anything resembling "change" that we find ourselves where we are with this issue. Rob McKenna is a well-respected Republican AG and fiercely pro-business. But whose business? He is also a smart politician. There are many more people and organizations that stand to lose than the players here in Kittitas Valley one way or the other. This issue, however resolved, will probably have far reaching affect long after the dust settles in downtown Cle Elum. Politics? No wonder the Farm Bureau is waffling (thanks, Clem). This issue potentially has OUR Republican hardline politicians squared off against THEIR hardline Republican politicians. Don't be surprised if Doc Hastings, who is the leading Republican on the House Natural Resources Committee, ultimately is forced to weigh in here.

I said if before so bear with me but our local politicians really blew it this time. Now, their elders on the State level are getting huffy, Warnick and Hinkle eagerly awaiting the AGs decision, if any.
Holmquist? Her priorities are supposed to be land rights and water policy. Maybe she smells a rat. Should she toe the line with her brethren or is the water getting a little too warm for her?

Water rights. Dear and getting dearer. And politics surely muddying things up.
water + science = progress bylordoflys11 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Jeremy: I have a question for you as you know more about this than me.

Isn't there enough hydrogeological science known about the upper watershed to base decisions on future exempt wells? This is from a June 13, 2006 USGS news release:

Hydrogeologic information needed to model ground-water flow in the Yakima River Basin is available in a new report published today by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS). The report was produced in cooperation with the Bureau of Reclamation, Washington State Department of Ecology, and the Yakama Nation.

Water managers in the Yakima River Basin will use the computer model to boost their understanding of the ground-water flow system and how it interacts with surface water. The model will also be used to test water management strategies.

This release gives the impression that a computer model based upon information already gathered would indicate how ground water flow
interacts with surface water. Maybe this study excluded well-extracted water. In any case, your prior comment that irrigation boosts the aquifer recharge seems to be backed up by the USGS (2/23/07).
Impairment? byJeremy11 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
You should show everyone your evidence of impairment. This would be the first case, can you share with everyone your proof that exempt wells are taking water from your water right?

Facts have been lacking on the part of the DOE/Anti-development groups.
Cle Elum Meeting Aug, 18th byClem11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I expected to see some good rants since this is a heated issue but it was pretty tame. I thought Joe Peck did a nice job of pointing out how ridiculous the water rights are when Roslyn is threatened with getting shut off and they only use the water of 77 exempt wells. Then of course there was a Senator and an Attorney from north of Spokane who encourage the commissioner to carry the fight to Olympia.

I think the water rights attorney for Suncadia scored some points when he encouraged the commissioners to come to an agreement. His opinion I think that even if Kittitas wins it wouldnt be over and it could end up in Olympia. He inferred the mess the water rights issue is causing doesnt really help the counties image. Rep Hinkle also spoke. He seemed pretty neutral while supporting the County I wonder if he isnt encouraging the County to come to an agreement. A local builder also told the County to come to an agreement by agreeing to meters.

The attorney from Suncadia did mention that Suncadia would be willing to transfer water rights but they were not for sale. I am not sure what it means but that might be some very good news for whatever projects are being held up.
Cle Elum Meeting-8/18 bycountrygirl1111 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I want to know what was so much more important and funny that Mr. McClain and county attorney Brent Bottoms could not contain themselves until after Mr. Peck's 3 minutes of alotted time were up?
I expect better from my elected officials. It was rude and classless behavior. Otherwise it was a very civil meeting and both sides need to get back to the bargaining table.
Noticed the same thing byClem11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Mr. Peck scored lots of points for Roslyn and the moratorium. The only thing I could think of after cutting him off is they were thinking and laughing to themselves that they had heard it before. Commissioner Crankovich is from Roslyn but it doesnt seem that he has backed Roslyn up on the moratorium.

This idea that if they can get the moratorium lifted that they are going to save a lot of jobs is a total joke. The vacation-2nd home market has fallen off a cliff. There are hundred of lots available in Suncadia, Bullfrog Road, and Cle Elum ridge among other places that can be developed right now. Unless someone mentions different Sapphire Skies has been silent on the issue of the moratorium. I would guess they would want it lifted but they probably have so much inventory that it doesnt matter.

The meeting did focus a little more on this being a "local" issue rather than "outsiders" coming in and forcing the moratorium on Kittitas County. It seems the elected officials forgot the moratorium has a lot of support from "locals" so no one really got into blaming the State or "outside forces".

What will the impact of the moratoium being lifted be? I dont think very much. I think Sapphire Skies might drill a couple of wells on the top of Cle Elum Ridge. Suncadia has more than enough water to supply all development needs for the near future. I am not sure if Suncadia is "pumping and dumping" but one of the local realtors touched on the five million gallon daily capacity that Suncadia has.
RE: Noticed the same thing byJeremy11 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
It would have been alright if the meeting was about Roslyn. The anti-development groups have tried to lump Roslyn into their exempt well issue. Problem is that the Roslyn issue is seperate dealing with their surface water right, no proof that exempt wells have taken water from Roslyn.

He did not get cut off, his allotted time was up. The city of Roslyn had more than 3 minutes total to rant, seems to be more than fair. Their issue demonstrates why we shouldnt depend on the DOE for help, they have not accomplished much for Roslyn.

DOE showed how much they want to solve the issue by sending up someone with no information or authority to do anything more than take notes. Doesnt look like they are giving this an honest attempt at resolving the issue.
Outside Forces and the Moratorium byClem11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The Daily Record in their Editorial on 8-18 correctly pointed out that some of the "outside forces" come from outside the county in the form of elected officials from other counties in eastern WA who have encourage the County to fight the moratorium and not sign an agreement. For reasons unkown to me its apparently "ok" if someone from 200 miles away in the NE corner of the State wants to drag the county down by fighting the moratorium but if someones is local supporting the moratorium they are anti-growth. Many if not most of the so called anti-growth people probably support Suncadia, Bullfrog UGA and the new cluster development "City Heights" in Cle Elum. Thats not anti-growth.
Extremist Republicans bySwesy11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I have been following this issue with some interest. I have some thoughts on this given my experience with the County in the 1990's with respect to growth management.

The simple fact is that the Kittitas County Commissioners have always resisted compliance with the Growth Management Act. It makes no difference if there was one nominal Democrat on past Commissions. They have uniformly refused and/or failed to comply with state law, particularly with respect to resource lands. This current issue on exempt wells is no different. If it impedes residential development of resource lands they are opposed, no matter what the ultimate consequences.

In the mid-1990's my clients and I requested that then County Commissioners conduct a study of our groundwater resources, not just in the Upper County but the entire county. They declined to do so citing financial restraints. This issue regarding the adequacy of water resources in Kittitas County is nothing new, particularly with respect to residential development. I continue to believe there is a significant county-wide issue here.

I do not see anything that suggests to me that the DOE has acted inappropriately here. I think it prudent to have a moritorium (which should be county-wide) until we have resolved the issues of where our water resources are, their ectent, and the drilling of exempt wells on those resources.

What we have here is a partisan attack on efforts to protect our enviroment, quality of life, and the rights of senior water-rights holders. It is no coincidence that all those attacking the DOE and Mr. Manning are right-wing Republicans and their developer enablers.

Jeremy, you are the one challenging Roslyn to demonstrate that exempt well will effect their water supply. Perhaps, since you are the one pushing the argument, you need to produce some objective evidence to support your position.

Mr. Manweller, given your recent column in the Daily Record lableing anyone who supports the moritorium as an "extremist", perhaps you need to take a hard look at yourself. The Republican party, which you head in this county and the county commissioners, all Republicans, represent is the only "extremist" organization I am aware of. You "birthers" and town hall terrorists have cornered the market on extremism in this country.

Finally, to the extent Mr. McClain and Mr. Bottoms chose to display their respect for those whose views they do not share should come as no surprise. They are Republicans. Mr. McClain clearly wants to replace Mr. Zempel as prosecutor, and Mr. Bottoms probably does not want to offend a future boss by not supporting him.
RE: Extremist Republicans bylordoflys11 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Thanks for your insight.
Any Facts? byJeremy11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Other than complaining about the commissioners and local politics can any of you present any facts supporting your petition/moretorium?

I still have not heard or seen one person at any meetings or elsewhere present any evidence of impairment due to exempt wells in Kittitas County. The only thing that has become very clear is that these out of area groups have an anti-development agenda. The vast majority of people who actually live here, pay taxes, and contribute to the local economy are against the moretoruim.
RE: Extremist Republicans byClem11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
Two of our Commissioners Paul Jewell and Alan Crankovich barely were voted in with 51% of the vote in a county that is supposed to lean heavily Republican. Their opponents wanted to bring the county back into some sort of complance with the Growth Management Act. Instead of making some sort of peace with the State, Crankovich and Jewell apparently encouraged by others have decided to take on the Department of Ecology. Crankovich and Jewel have support for their actions by at most 51% of the county which is hardly a mandate. The commissioners need to take a serious look at the County and realize that the County is not going to develop its way out of the recession. Maybe they should take a look at all the unsold lots along Cle Elum Ridge many with wells in place. I have read a lot of comments in both papers and have yet to read one where someone has said they wanted to buy a piece of property but decided against it because of the well moratorium or someone wanted to build a cabin, etc but couldnt because of the moratorium. All of the comments about "hardship" are second hand from realtors, bankers, developers, well drillers, etc. Someone needs to get a "coastie" up in front of the commissioners complaining that he couldnt get a well drilled...LOL.

Blaming the moratorium on outsiders, coasties, etc. is simply a tactic that is used to gain support for the fight against DOE. Water or lack of it has been an issue in the County for a long time. In 1986 all irrigators were reduced by 10% and in September all water was cut off to irrigators. Whats going to happen when we have another drought like that? Senior water rights holders will want to figure out how to shut water off in the Upper County.

I will agree with you Jeremy that there is no proof of impairment. I also think in the event of another drought Roslyn and others will be shut off without "evidence of impairment".
Not to put bycountrygirl1111 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
too fine a point on it, but; McClain is an ELECTED public official, whether he agrees or disagrees, his JOB at the public hearing was to be respectful of ALL the citizens of Kittitas County wishing to speak. Everyone was cut off at the 3 minutes, McClain and Bottoms carried on DURing Mr. Peck's 3 minutes.
It's time to recognize the cumulative impact of all the wells drilled and waiting to be drilled.
Nr. Zempel has his detractors but the thought of McMlain as proscuting attorney is downright scary.
Beating a dead horse? bywhatatrip11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Jeremy. Why do you keep beating a dead horse? Speaker after speaker has said ground water and surface water are one body of water, they are connected and each effects the other. Any water taken from this one body of water and not returned is consumed. IF more water is consumed than is available, then too much water was consumed and then it comes down to who has the right to consume the water and then who has "more of a right" (seniority) to consume the water. To show impairment, all the senior water rights holders have to do is point to the guage at Parker if it is low and the water faucets will start turning off.

Jeremy, showing impairment is like pissing in a swimming pool. If you took notice of the volume of water before all the kids got in and took another when they got out and you found more water after than before, assuming no evaporation, then you know someone or maybe more than one pissed in the pool, but who??? Same is true for taking water out of the "pool" of water we have in the Yakima water basin. If the guage is low, impairment is proven and all junior water rights holders are held to account.
RE: Beating a dead horse? (below viewing threshold show)byJeremy11 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse)
Not to put bySwesy11 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Countrygirl11,

You should be scared at the possibility of Mr. McClain being our next prosecutor.

This is not just idle speculation. Mr. McClain used to work for Mr. Zempel as a deputy prosecutor. He got politically ambitious and ran for, and was elected, as a county commissioner. Since then, he and Mr. Zempel have had numerous disagreements over the way Mr. Zempel does his job.

The only conclusion I can come to is that Mr. McClain is positioning himself to challenge Mr. Zempel in the next election where the prosecutor's job is up for election. I suspect one reason is that the prosecutor's job pay a lot more than county commissioner.

It will be interesting as to how the local Republicans respond to this as both Zempel and McClain are Republicans. What is clear to me is that the residents of this county lose either way as neither of these persons has the professional competence and/or the experience for the job.
RE: Not to put bymoonlightmile11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Well said Swesy. Perhaps an attorney with enough guts to go against the current system will throw his/her hat in the ring. I hope so. Zempel and McClain do not appeal to me. I think in a small community like ours it's easy to become a "go along to get along" public servant. It's time for a change.
J. is beating the horse because he has to byMC11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Unfortunately his business/way of life is in severe jeopardy right now. Honestly I'd also like to see that poor flayed horse put to rest, but I'm sympathetic with the deep panic he's going through.

IMO the county has blood on it's hands in all this. Case in point right in front of us: Lordofflies has been posting for how long now on here about the coming 'water wars'. I hardly think s/he is privy to special information that the county council members, planning boards, etc couldn't have seen looming over the horizon years ago. It's their JOB to see problems coming and try to struggle through the painful compromises required to get us from A to Z with minimal mortality.

Instead we apparently get leadership with fingers firmly stuck in ears- "LALALALALA"- until the whole thing erupts into a crisis, which then grossly amplifies the negative impacts on land owners and businesses. If the county could have laid out a plan for some kind of staged, gradual restriction/ tightening of monitoring, drilling, etc 5 years ago Jeremy could have adjusted his business plans accordingly. Instead he and many others may be abrupt casualties.

I may not agree with his POV but let's face it, we can all smell the fear and anger and frustration. Water issues are extraordinarily complex and nobody should assume they'll skate out of this untouched either. I'm willing to allow him space to vent because we all may need it eventually.

Wishing everyone peaceful waters ahead, but sadly knowing better....
RE: J. is beating the horse because he has to bylordoflys11 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
I am a he. 3rd generation resident, not that it has anything to do with the current issue. But the ritual of irrigation was part of my early life, including capturing as much canal wastewater as possible to augment our jr.water rights for our corn and alfalfa. Water, as it affects our livelihood and daily life, has always been everyones most important resource, though it has been taken for granted by most. Demographics and climate are both changing simultaneously. A bad combination. Hard-line politics serves only to polarize our community.
The real water wars are coming. The sooner we begin to deal with the reality of our situation the better prepared we will be when things become dire.
Not to put bySwesy11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Moonlightmile,

Here's the dilemna, coming from someone who once ran for the job. First, demographically this county has become Republican. Second, in order to win you need the financial resources to do so. Some potential candidates lack the personal financial resources to mount a viable campaign. That requires financial support from other citizens and concerned groups.

Personally, the prosecutor's job should not be partisan. Neither should sheriff, treasurer, auditor or clerk. These should all be nonpartisan. The only partisan jobs in the county should be commissioners because that is a legislative body. Until the Legislature changes this system we will most likely be stuck with self-professed Republicans as our county officials.
RE: Not to put bymoonlightmile11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
I believe this county has always been Republican, Swesy. It was a source of deep shame to me in the sixties. When the votes were tallied you could always count on Kittitas County to go for the Republican candidate and vote against more liberal initiatives. And that was long before Red/Blue tagging. I was pleasantly surprised when the recent Death With Dignity measure was approved by a majority. Maybe the times really are a changin'.

I can understand why the financial obligation would make a person hesitant to run. There is also the professional risk of alienating the current powers that be. I think this is especially true of anyone with the guts to run against an incumbent judge. But I digress...I hope you will consider tossing your hat in the ring again for Prosecuting Attorney. You might be surprised at the support you could muster.
Future Well Drilling byClem11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I think its going to be a lot more modest anyways than it was from 2003-2007. Sapphire Skies and the associated LLC's have not been particularly successful in selling off the 20 acre lots on Cle Elum Ridge (someone needs to blame coasties for not buying the parcels).
The City Heights Project is a piecing together of about 18 unsold parcels by the various LLC's into one project. I dont see Easton Ridge or Teanaway or anything else getting off the ground anytime soon.

It appears that American Forest Resources with their Teanaway Project will not mirror Sapphire Skies and the other 20 acre lot projects. I attended their open house and the goals they listed really arent much different than that "radical" organization Futurewise. Here is Futurewise's Mission Statement.

" Futurewise is a statewide public interest group working to promote healthy communities and cities while protecting farmland, forests and shorelines today and for future generations."

Its unfortunate that our Commissioners have decided to make this a political issue and think the Upper County can develop its way out of the recession. By the way parceling the whole upper county into 3-20 acre lots cheapens the whole county. Who exactly is going to buy them?
Not to put bySwesy11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Moonlightmile,

Thanks for your input. Having been around here since the 1960's, this county used to be more favorable to Democrats, both locally and in the state legislature. Part of that had to do with the fact that not only did faculty and staff at Central tend to be Democrats, but much of the workers in the mining and forest products industries in the upper County tended to be Democrats and union members. Obviously, as time has passed that has changed and we have gotten west-side carpet baggers like Hinkle and McClain.

I've run for proescutor and lost. I've also run for Superior Court and lost. It simply is not a matter of having the "guts" to run. Nor does it really matter that you have legitimate issues to run on. Incumbents, particularly in this County have a tremendous advantage, and given the current cost of running for office, if you don't have the financial resources you don't have much chance.

If you don't think this is true, go look at the FDC records for Jewell. He put very little money into his campaign. However, the Republicans basically funded his campaign. Democrats, including the party, have never been willing to do that here.
Kittitas County and the Republican Party bylordoflys11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
It's interesting to note that one of Kittitas County's most famous pioneers, AJ Splawn, author, cattleman, and politician, ran for Governor in 1908 as a Democrat. Republicans have served Ag states (really most of the West) well for years. In a rapidly changing world, however, their momentum has languished and a general lack of progression has caused a mini-Democratic revival in the West. Notably, Montana's Governor Schweitzer and others.

In this particular case, land rights take a back seat to water rights. And rightly so. I hope that Jeremy is right (and I think he is) that the DOE will find that the current exempt wells have little to no affect on surface water. I also think that the DOE will find that there is a tolerance limit, however, and that at some point the DOE will cap out new exempt wells in the upper county unless they are mitigated somehow. The recent studies that have been completed by the USGS has given us some preliminary understanding of the geology of this area but not enough to base decisions of this nature.
The forthcoming study by DOE will allow scientists to make a determination.

By blindly adhering to political dogma, our local politicians look foolish and weak, and have not served the interests of local residents....no matter what side of the issue they're on. History will show us who acted progressively...and those who didn't. Sometimes a little personal courage to step out of the circle is needed.
RE: Kittitas County and the Republican Party byMC11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Lordofflies, whoever you are... I appreciate your posts. You seem to have a better than average grasp of the issues. Even if I'm not posting, be sure I'm watching.
RE: Kittitas County and the Republican Party byMaxtodon11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
No one ever vote for best person anymore? Does not have to be 100% party platform. Abe Lincoln was a Republican. See old line southern democrats? You want to vote for George Wallace, Lester Maddox?

Liberals? If all were conservative in 1700's we would not have had independance as a nation. Werent all our nations founding fathers liberal?

I vote best person for the job. Republicans fund raiser did a LOT of money for Hopesource and Flood Victims Fund. A LOT. Helped people. Democrats do that I would support it too.

Who voted last election? Poor turnout. Have most popular president in years, BIG presidential election everyone excited a lot. We still have a GOOD country to run. Stay in the fight and lets win TOGETHER and keep things going.

Vote. Stay active and dont forget about elections. Each and every one is too important.

Quit the party platform excuses. We have too much work to do so get on with it. This red vs. the blue stuff takes away from getting things done.
Fear bySouth Bound11 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
As a past resident of Kittitas County I am appalled at all of the name calling in these posts. I am a proud conservative but don't lower myself to name calling, I let facts speak for themselves. What type of intelligence is shown by calling people TEABAGGERS, RADIAL RIGHT WINGERS, EXTREMISTS ETC... They all seem to be coming from one side of the political divide and that speaks for itself. This issue is NOT about water rights but more about POWER and the right to either freedom/liberty or control/mastery.
RE: Fear byMC11 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
"This issue is NOT about water rights but more about POWER and the right to either freedom/liberty or control/mastery. "

Actually that's the point... this shouldn't be about 'freedom' or 'control' or other highly charged buzzwords. It SHOULD be about water and our future. Painful compromises on all sides are most likely required.
RE: Fear bylordoflys11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Well, you make several good points. This thread concerns the Water War. Politics plays a part but is only one of many variables that we are dealing with. Finger pointing and name calling go hand in hand with emotional politics. And, Maxtodon, yes, there are many good people on both sides of this issue. So, yes, we've beat this horse enough. Let's move on.

The biggest player in this particular scenerio, as strange as it seems, is not DOE or Kittitas County. It is the majority bloc of senior water rights holders in the lower Yakima Valley. They have been quietly watching events unfold in this tug of war. Our little skirmish. They, however, have more to lose, or gain, than anyone. This would include all of the irrigation districts south of us, the Yakama Nation, and all private and govt. fishery organizations. Traditional politics do not even enter into things here. Last month Clem pointed out that Yakima farmers joined with environmentalists to block Easterday Ranches from building a feedlot near Pasco. Why? Water, of course.
They were planning to drill an exempt well to pull about half a million gallons of water daily for their operation. Farmers there raise dryland wheat and are worried that Easterdays well would dry up their homestead groundwater. And,when longtime farmers and ranchers in south Yakima County discovered nitrates in their wells they complained about the huge dairy operation upriver. So they contacted the EPA, who discovered dead cattle abandoned in drainage ditches and raw sewage being dumped directly into the river. EPA sued and forced the operation to clean up.

Strange bedfellows indeed. But that is the new reality. There are many new unlikely alliances. And everyone will be vigorously defending their land rights, which include not only water itself, but the right to clean water...and air for that matter. The moratorium is unprecedented. Nobody expected it and nobody certainly wants it. And a waiting game has begun.
Roslyn Study? byJeremy11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I have read a lot of comments about how nothing is known about the Upper County, in fact it was one of the reasons for the whole issue. Has anyone here looked at the Roslyn water study done by the U.S.G.S. and DOE? Its interesting how the state and anti-development groups don't bring it up, maybe some of you should take a look at it.

Just because the all the facts in this issue lean towards no impairment does not make it a dead horse. Facts should control the outcome, not agendas.
RE: Roslyn Study? bylordoflys11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Jeremy, I contacted a geologist from the USGS who participated in the study and asked him specifically about the Roslyn studies. Here is his reply:


Although parts of the upper county are being included in our study, this work was for developing some preliminary understanding of the area and not for any decision making--the reason DOE is going to undertake an upper county study. Our work was concentrated in the sedimentary basins and the basalts-the primary emphasis of the study. Hope this helps,
regards, ....
More of the Same? byClem11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2009/08/26/kittitas-co-

Heres an article from todays Yakima Herald and I am guessing the Record will have an article on new proposed "language" that the commissioners hope will lift the moratorium. Instead of proposing new "language" why dont the Commissioners just make some concessions?

The writer of the article and a lot of other people seem to have a belief that the moratorium has brought construction to a halt. Nothing could be further from the truth. The "economy" brought construction to a halt. If there was a big pentup demand for building we would see it spilling over to Suncadia and many of the lots that already have wells on them.

Whatever happens next week with Jay Manning maybe lifting the moratorium I am guessing an AG opinion would still be coming down the line.
Ecology Grants and Kittitas County bylordoflys11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
On Aug 27th the DOE opens up it's grant funding cycle under the Columbia River Basin Water Management Grant program. I'm throwing this information in because Ecology is often portrayed as the bad guy (and they are far from perfect). What many people do not realize is that Kittitas County has one of the highest acceptance rates in the State on DOE grant requests...and grant requests coming from Kittitas County organizations are used as a model for other grant-requesting agencies in the State. These are primarily water conservation projects and they benefit farmers and other water users. The money also helps to keep water clean for fish and recreational users. Many local organizations work hard to this end but one group in particular, the Kittitas County Water Purveyors, have been very impressive. They are largely connected to local irrigation entities but their work is mostly voluntary. Go to their
great web site and take a look (I hope that they don't mind this).

http://www.kcwp.org/

If you live on or near surface water in the County and you have an idea on how to improve water quality or irrigation while otherwise
enhancing the environment contact the KCPV and/or take a look at the site below:

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wr/cwp/cr_grants.html

Good luck.
Roslyn Study? byJeremy11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I do not know if we are talking about the same study. This one seems to be very specific about quantities of water and the potential use. USGS done with DOE. Here is a link and the title.

Reconnaissance of water availability and quality in abandoned coal mines near Roslyn, Kittitas County, Washington
http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/usgspubs/ofr/ofr80955
RE: Roslyn Study? bylordoflys11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
No. Not the same. I'll ask the USGS for feedback on this one.
Abandoned coal mine water in Roslyn bylordoflys11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The below is from the USGS report sent in by Jeremy. Interesting but the total recoverable volume of water is only 20,000 acre feet. By contrast Lake Keechelus has a capacity of 157,800 acre feet.

The recoverable volume of ground water in abandoned coal mines near Roslyn, Wash., is estimated to be 20,000 acre-feet. During times of drought, pumping this water into the Cle Elum and Yakima Rivers for use in irrigation downstream should present few major water-quality problems. Wells at seven locations should be sufficient to withdraw the recoverable water from nine separate reservoirs within the mines. Under normal recharge (precipitation) conditions, these reservoirs would refill in about 6 years. (USGS) (end of report)

Unless there is something additional that I haven't yet come across there doesn't seem to be near enough water volume to seriously augment irrigation in a crises but maybe somebody else can comment on this. What else can this water be used for?
RE: Abandoned coal mine water in Roslyn bywhatatrip11 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Hopefully we are never in a position to have to draw that water out to provide for instream flows. Drought is one thing but it would be even worse if we had to do so because exempt wells were drawing so much water that instream flows were compromised.

It would be an interesting experiment to draw all the water out and see how long it took to recharge. If precipitation takes 6 years and recharge happens in much less than 6 years then the likely reason would be recharge from stream flow and or underground runoff of snowmelt.

All this study does is further prove the connection between surface water and ground water. This is not addtional water. Drawing from it would be the same as "borrowing" from it and it would require that what is borrowed must be paid back. Even if it did take 6 years to recharge (payback), that is 3,333 less acre feet per year for the next 6 years after pumping. Besides, pumping that much water would be an expensive undertaking.
RE: Abandoned coal mine water in Roslyn byJeremy11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
For one this water could be used for possible mitigation. It is already there, information is known about it. Maybe it could be controlled locally instead of having the state being in control of local water.

Problem is that the state/anti-development groups have never came up with solutions or ideas to the "so-called" problem. They simply try to shoot down any mention of solution and go back to more restriction and moratorium. This makes it very clear on who wants to help the situation get resolved and not keeping it going.
Coal Mine Water In Roslyn byCleElum111 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Note the year of this report: 1981. Whats the current water available. I seen good wells change for the worse in less time than this almost 30 year old report.
Water budget neutral bycountrygirl1111 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
That's part of the problem, the report is 28 years old. All of the reports on water: potable, flood, etc., for our county are at least 25 years old. Besides the changes by population growth, there was an earthquake in 2001 that shook things up. The other unmentioned concern with pumping water from abandoned mine shafts is the possibility of the land above the shafts subsiding when the water is pumped out. So, anything pumped out would have to be water budget neutral. There is alot of property in the upper county honeycombed below with old mine shafts. Sink holds could be a real problem.
How Much Will Water Cost in the Future? byClem11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The idea that the moratorium is having any impact on the local economy I think can be easily debunked since there was little building going on anyways. Also Aqua Permanante filed the petition two years ago so its not like it came out of nowhere.

We have a lot of noise going on in the background about water but the biggest developer Sean Northrop and Sapphire Skies who controls 10,000 acres hasnt been heard from. The other biggest property owner with 7,000 acres Suncadia has plenty of lots and water available if anyone wants to build.

Suncadia is making available 500 acre feet of water through the DOE water bank which should be more than enough to satisfy any development here in the County for the forseeable future. Outside of that 500 acre feet water might become very expensive. Roslyn is purchasing about 225 acre feet for $400,000 which comes out to more than $400 for each resident of Roslyn. Thats to supplement the existing 445 acre feet of water.

Suncadia has plenty of water. I wasnt able to find out how much they have but I would assume it would be enough for a city of maybe 10,000 or more. They purchased it over time from landowners in Teanaway and Ellensburg. Interesting that with the moratorium that a developer might have to go to Suncadia for water. I doubt if Suncadia would approve of a new development consisting of double-wides...LOL.
RE: How Much Will Water Cost in the Future? byJeremy11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
This moratorium is hurting the Upper County. I don't know if you get out much but a lot of jobs are created from building and development, all that money trickles down through our economy, so this is felt by everyone.

In the future people will look past Kittitas County for investing and starting business because of this moratorium. It will be too risky of an investment.
RE: How Much Will Water Cost in the Future? bycountrygirl1111 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
That is how water will flow up hill - if you pay enough. I think if Suncadia gets fully build out they will not be selling or leasing any of their water.
Moratorium Hurting The Economy? byClem11 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
I dont think its having the impact that some say its having right now but if it isnt resolved in a way that keeps dragging on there will be an impact. Jeremy, you and Joe Mentor the water attorney for Suncadia are on the same side of the issue on the moratorium being bad for the future of the Upper County. People will not want to invest in an area where this is a continuing issue. The question is will the Commissioners, Hinkle, Warnick, and the other conservative elected officials want to make this an issue that may take years to resolve at the state level by dragging it through the courts? If the "property rights" mentality wins out and a long fight ensues it will drag the County down.

I dont think anyone who supports the moratorium wants to see growth shut down because building of vacation-second homes has been a large part of the economy for years and will continue to be. There has to be some sort of regulation to the growth and the Upper County has to be perceived as an "attractive" place to live-build. I think sometimes a lot of people forget exactly who it is developers are trying to attract to live in the Upper County.
Petition byJeremy11 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
One of the reasons for the petition/moratorium is the idea that nothing is known about water in the Upper County.

The Roslyn water study is full of information even though it is from the 80's it goes into great detail about how it was done to possibly supplement lower valley irrigation water. Why didn't DOE show the findings at the meetings?

DOE also has thousands of well logs and pump test information. In a well log it goes into the details of geology,yield,static level, and location. To me this tells a lot about the Upper County.

Finally you have the latest USGS it will also contain information pertaining to the Upper County.

So the statement that nothing is known about the Upper County is false and it can be shown with real facts. This seems to be the whole problem with this issue, the anti-development groups/DOE that are pushing this do not have any facts to support their argument only the chicken little mentality.

Like it or not you have to have facts, especially when you are attempting to disrupt our countys economy.
Water transfers and the Kittitas Water Conservancy Board bylordoflys11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The Water Conservancy Board (WCB) was formed in 2000 to facilitate water transfers and keep the process local. When Suncadia's predecessor, Trendwest, transferred 34.7 acre feet out of Domerie Creek to Roslyn (this actually came out of Cle Elum's mitigated transfer) it was the WCB that kept it simple and cheap. Trendwest had originally purchased this water right from Pautzke Bait Co. What is the alternative to the WCB? The DOE. The WCB essentially takes this responsibility from them, and I don't think they like it much. Decisions are, however, still subject to their approval. In this case, as a result of a modification from the DOE and the resultant appeal to Superior Court the actual conveyance was never made. Say what you will about the 'gentrification' of the upper county but Suncadia has been a good neighbor, certainly in regard to water. Ask KRD, or the cities of Roslyn and Cle Elum. OK. I'm rambling a bit but bear with me.

In years past, the commissioners wondered if we really needed this board. A few years later, we are wondering what we would ever do without it. I believe that there are three board members currently, serving 6 year terms. One of them is Mr. Pat Deneen. I mention Mr. Deneen because he voiced his concerns at a public meeting in regard to the water transfer described above. Mr. Deneen was "concerned of the possible impairment of his groundwater right as a result of this change." Where was he getting his water from? A 500 foot well near Ronald drilled right into one of the abandoned coal mines that is the subject of that 1981 USGS report. Everything is connected here, and by the way, I admire the way he has become involved in all things water. Water is the new currency. Hold it. Protect it.
RE: Water transfers and the Kittitas Water Conservancy Board bycountrygirl1111 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
During one of the hearings on that transfer Mr. Deneen recused himself from ruling on the transfer. Just in case he did not, there were at least 6 county residents that would have demanded he recuse himself. Mr. Deneen purchased senior water rights when the water issue was still somewhat below the radar of most of the citizens of Kittitas County.
RE: Water transfers and the Kittitas Water Conservancy Board bylordoflys11 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Developers often put themselves into positions of public policy
especially when it deals with land use and natural resource interests.
I would be a hypocrite to call anyone out on this. $o I won't.
Yakima Project "Flip-Flop" Operations Begin. bylordoflys11 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Happy Flip Flop Day Everyone!!
Huh. byMC11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
And here's another move on the 'strange bedfellows' Clem & Lordofflies were talking about:

http://kvnews.com/articles/2009/08/31/news/doc4a9c242c23cd67

Interesting.
Clear and Present Danger - to water supplies bylordoflys11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
The Washington Cattlemen's Association, hq'ed right here in the Windy City, has now officially weighed in. Easterday Ranches want to use the 1945 exempt well law to water 30,000 cattle. The exempt well law was written at the time mega-cattle operations did not exist and the intent was for users to pull a maximum 5,000 gallons of water per day.

In truth, an operation of this size will pull HALF A MILLION gallons per day. What do you think this will do to the aquifer? Do the dryland farmers who are fighting this also raise a few livestock? Probably. More importantly, the farmers and their families depend on well water to drink themselves.

Does the 1945 law need to be re-written to reflect present day farming/ranching methods and make it clearer as to what can and can't be extracted? Probably.

And yet, do we know if enough water exists to satisfy Easterday's requirements? Based on a recent ground water report done by an agency in Othello many of the large underground aquifers in Eastern Washington will run dry, at current usage, within 5 to 20 years. These are the aquifers that lie beneath basalt rock, which make it difficult to recharge. And, I believe that Franklin County is part of the Columbia Plateau aquifer system, which is basalt(and the water underneath courtesy of the last ice age). Now, this is not the same situation in the upper county which has a sedimentary-rock aquifer which is permeable and regenerates easily.

OK. I'm now out of my area of expertise (trout fishing), so if any geologists out there need to straighten me out please do so. The point is is that the Washington State Cattlemen's Association has thrown in their support behind Easterday Ranches, and against the dryland farmers in Franklin County and others in their unlikely alliance with the the Sierra Club and our friends at The Center for Environmental Law and Policy, who are assisting the anti-exempt well petitioners in the upper county (after all, let's try to keep things in perspective).

.....and the plot thickens.
Anti-development groups byJeremy11 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Do these groups ever come up with any positive ideas, or is it just shut off all the water for housing, cattle, and people? People still have to earn an honest living, not just the protestors.
only outcome will be more cost byMaxtodon11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
someone is going to have to create this into a new utility and meter all the wells. Nothing will change it will all cost more and a new bunch of jobs will be created to staff this new service. So many are demanding that something must be done. Water won't change. Most will be happy because theres meters.

Anyone out there have an exempt well actualy pumping 5K gal a day? KNOW HOW MUCH eclectricity it costs to run a 2- 3 hp pump that long? Cant remember how much gpm most exempt well pumps put out but it takes a long long time to put out that much per day and it aint cheap to run.

Big % of wells arent run everyday in county anyway. a lot only run on weekends. And almost all that water goes back in the ground through drainfelds.

Not all KRD water evaporates doesnt a lot of that soak in to the big recharge underground? How is the affect if suddenly all the irrgation gets turned off everyone farms all dry land with no recharge and it all just goes down the river?

So if water is interupted higher upercounty, that is all soaking mostly back in, doesnt that HELP the total aquifer situation?

just because have a well doesnt make water disapear and get sent to Mars or something.

I think a new utility more fees will be created and nothing will be solved but for even more hard bad feelings.

Ridiculous.
RE: only outcome will be more cost byJeremy11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Exactly.

The people who work in any industry that is connected to exempt wells will be the ones to pay in the future.

The anti-development groups/petitioners will go home until another situation arises for them to further their agendas on. Since they have nothing invested, they have nothing to lose.
RE: only outcome will be more cost byAureliux11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
AND a lot of exempt vacation property wells are only being used a few weekends a year. One good point made which I find interesting is, how much does it cost to run an electric pump to bring up 5,000 gallons? It can't be cheap. Particularly on a day in, day out basis. And what IS the gpm of those pumps? I'd like to know approximately how long it takes to get that much water. And last I heard, a well pump has a life expectancy of around 10 years IF it's not abused. So if someone out there in exempt well fantasy land is even thinking of cranking out that much water, I don't think they are either going to be able to afford it or keep it up for long. Check out what it costs for a new well pump once it burns out!

So what possible good can it do to stuff meters on all the wells in the county? Still have not seen a cost estimation per well to meter them but I KNOW that isn't going to be cheap. But I know who is going to end up paying for it. The landowner who has the well. Aren't the meters just by themselves priced over a grand?

And it's NOT going to solve anything. But because SOMETHING will be done that only affects certain people in the county, most of the loud clanging symbolic protests over water issues will fade away like bell bottom jeans and Nehru jackets.

And nothing will end up being done to protect fish habitat or the aquifers. But for some, it sure does sound good and it does get the emotions rolling.

Have fun with it!

A.
Judith Warnick and Cattle Watering byClem11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
At the first moratorium meeting in Cle Elum Judith Warnick mentioned that she was already looking into the 1945 exempt law with regard to water. I did a little research and found she was named legislator of the year by the "Cattle Producers of Washington". The Cattle Producers of Washington is a separate organization from the Washington Cattlemens Association. The Cattle Producers in fact are not particularly happy about the Easterday operation because they feed Canadian cattle and then market them as US cattle. Easterday is not doing any favors for the Cattle Producers by importing Canadian cattle and dragging prices down.

I was pretty impressed with Warnick because while asking that the moratorium be lifted she really didnt reveal too much about where she thought things should go. I really have to think that some of the senior water rights holders have tempered somewhat the politicians on this matter.

Only two more weeks till an opinion from the Attorney General. A favorable opinion from the AG might actually expand water rights for exempt wells by not including lawn watering. The Governors decision to allow some wells to be drilled and building that are permitted to go forward I think has taken a little steam out of the issue.

As far as building here goes Chelan County already had a water transfer program in place where senior water rights are purchased and wells drilled and I think thats what we will have. The question is how much will that water cost. The road to water goes through Suncadia. By the way the State doesnt make any money on the transfer all transfers are between the buyer and the seller and in the case of our county it will be Suncadia.
Water pioneer bylordoflys11 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I want to briefly mention the passing of Thorp's Ben George. Ben's contribution to County agriculture and irrigation go far beyond the borders of this County. Some years ago he took me in his pickup to look over the new diversion dam on the Taneum, a project that he helped develop. He was as excited as any kid with a new toy train. His many contributions will be remembered and he will be missed. Rest in peace.
Getting Closer To Finding Out How Much Water Will Cost byClem11 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Suncadia is getting close to announcing a price for water. My internet search indicated Suncadia paid $9.5 million for a lot of water but I couldnt find out how many acre feet they controlled. They have made available 476 acre feet of water. Heres a link to the full story and I have include below the information regarding Suncadia from the story. From the first water meeting I remember somone commenting that they would have to go to Suncadia to get water and that was a developer and apparently didnt like the idea. Suncadia spent I figure $3500 per lot for water which also includes the golf courses. Why not sell the water for $5000 per well? Its more than Roslyn is paying but maybe other sellers will step forward.



http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2009/08/31/a-site-to-bu

Water exchange FYI

The state Department of Ecology has started an Internet site for an upper Kittitas County water exchange to allow residents to purchase water to offset their exempt well use



:

www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wr/cwp/wtrxchng-3.html.
Pumping byJeremy11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Most of the wells in the Upper County do not pump more than 2-5 gpm. The average person uses 100 gallons per day. A good amount of the wells are for part time use, second homes. Then you throw in a lot of natural landscape which does not use much water. Last if you have a septic 80% goes back into the acquifer.
All of this equals not much water use.

By the way the meters are going to be at the cost of the homeowner, which is not determined yet. Once we have meters it will be alot easier for the DOE to think about funding, since they will control the mitigation back all that will be left is to charge for all water use.
RE: Pumping byAureliux11 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
Regular water meters from a utility cost an awful lot. The ones that will go on wells will almost certainly have to be set up with remote capabilities so the water usage can be kept track of without meter readers stomping through everyone's yard once a month.

It's going to be expensive.

So if a pump can at the high end crank out 5 gpm? 10 hours MINIMUM to attain the magic 5,000 gallons a day? Can you estimate the cost of running one of those pumps for 10 hours? No one I know is going to do that.

Some land owners I've talked to lately who also have an exempt well in Kittitas County are confused about what they can do with their water. No one so far knows about the 5,000 gallon a day limit. What they heard was that they can only water/irrigate one fourth of an acre with an exempt well no matter how much property they own.

One person I know had to replace a pump. Some other things were damaged when it went out. Do believe the grand total to fix their well was quite a bit over $10,000.00 and they were very lucky that their homeowners insurance covered part of the costs.

Single family home owners with an exempt well are not going to run the county out of water. It's ridiculous to even consider such a thing. And I haven't seen one yet that is using anything close to 500 gallons a day. And look at all the exaggerated hype and anxiety going on just because there's a 5,000 gallon a day limit...

A.
Metering byJeremy11 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The interesting part of metering is that the DOE already has the authority to meter any well they want to. Since they have this authority why push it off onto a little county? Long term costs?

It seems funny to me that the petitioners/anti-development groups want the DOE to have more power and control on exempt wells. Right now they have some of the most strict rules in the country regarding domestic use wells. If they think everything is a mess now, wait until the state gets a tighter grip on domestic water.
Yakama Nations Letter to Department of Ecology byClem11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Who are the opponents to the exempt wells? The two meeting in Cle Elum and the letters to the editors and the comments here would have you believe that "outsiders" have interfered and DOE responded to outside or westside forces. The outsiders by the way consist of Futurewise and the Center for Environmental Law and Policy. If you really think they are outsiders then the Washington State Farm Bureau and the Building Industry Association of Washington which supported the County on the GMA appeals should also be considered "outsiders" interfering with county business.

The other big "Outside" group that has supported the DOE on the moratorium is the Yakama Nation. Heres the link to the letter they sent to DOE on August 9th. If you think a favorable ruling from the Attorney General will end this matter read the letter and think again. This could easily end up in courts or in Olympia and as others have said if Olympia gets involved it could get worst.
Heres the link:
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/WR/hq/pdf/swtr/8309_yakamanat
byclarifier11 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Housing developments strung together are by state law to be considered as a subdivision. Subdivisions require SEPA review, where all environmental impacts should be taken into consideration. Instead Kittitas County has allowed for developers to break these subdivisions up to avoid SEPA review and avoid answering the question of whether there is an adequate and legal supply of water.

Cumulatively, these developments are like adding a whole new town to the equation. Should these "towns" be free to use water when Roslyn with a 1908 water right is regulated?

Questions of how much water is actually used or whether the individual withdrawals have an impact are moot. What is important is where you are in line. If you are drawing on water that was developed after 1905, you are drawing on borrowed water.

The Yakama Nation has time immemorial rights and the US Bureau of Reclamation claimed all other water supplies not spoken for as of 1905. You Johnny come lately's in continuity with the Yakima River are relying on the kindness of strangers right here in this Valley.

Fairness is not part of the equation. Seniority is. The laws and courts are on the senior's side. Do future homeowners know this? Do the cattlemen and dairymen relying on exempt wells recognize the risk they are taking?
excellent points bylordoflys11 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Again, upper county exempt well issue, as important as it is to us, is just a continuation of events related to water, or more accurately, to the scarcity of water in this river basin. The majority of the senior water rights holders, by far, live south of us. The prolification of new homes in the upper county and the potential affect on surface water has a lot of people scratching heads and making contingencies. In the meantime, the ritual of irrigation is winding down. It has been a good water year, but many are taking the resource less for granted these days.
good points bycountrygirl1111 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
and any one who attended the first public hearing in 2007 on this water issue probably heard the real estate contingent state 'a buyer beware clause will just kill the real estate market in Kittitas County'. So, no most people with the idea of living here fulltime or just vacationing on their land until retirement had NO CLUE. Our county government has been complicent regarding the daisy chain of LLC developement by a few developers wanting to circumvent the permit exempt well law. It took alot of time, effort and some money to get thru the convoluted list of LLCs that are all tied back to one parent LLC that is owned by Sean Northrup/Sapphire Skyes. It's all public knowledge but why go to all the trouble to hide ownership if you don't have anything to hide.
Thanks clem for the link to the Yakima Nation letter and the info on where Easterday get there cattle; interesting read and I'm glad I don't buy beef at the supermarket.
Fairness byJeremy11 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
I think that following the law seems fair enough. The exempt well rule is clear on stockwatering and domestic use as well as outdoor use.

There is also the proof of impairment, if you claim it you have to prove it. If this so-called problem is as big as you all say why is there no evidence to support the petition/moretorium? Not one case to date, you would think that these anti-development groups could at least find a single instance of this impairment happening. Instead of facts they give us potentials and what if's.
Fairness and Impairment byAureliux10 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I agree with Jeremy. A LOT of rhetoric going on about the 5,000 gallons a day LIMIT but I have never found ONE exempt well that is pumping anything close to 1/10 of that per day average.

No one can afford to pump that much water! Or replace the pumps they are going to burn out early.

A.
RE: Fairness and Impairment bywhatatrip10 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
It is not true that no one can afford to run their well pump for 8 hours a day. A 3/4 hp pump uses 6.8 amps max which is 1.564 kilowatts of electricity per hour. At $0.08 per kw that is about 12 and a half cents per hour. A 3/4 hp pump can pump 10 gallons per minute more or less depending upon how deep the well is. At 50 to 100 feet deep it should cost about a dollar a day to water for 8 hours per day. That is how long it would take to use 5,000 gallons per day. And that is about how much per day for 65 days during the growing season that it would take to keep 1/2 acre of grass green. The whole season would cost them about %65.00 which is very cheap compared to what it will cost to buy a water right.
It takes about 1 acre feet of water to keep 1/2 acre of grass green. On the wholesale market 1 acre foot of water rights cost about $2,000. At the consumer level as being proposed, I would expect to see $5,000 per acre foot and I would not be shocked to see as much as $10,000 per acre foot of water.
Limits byCleElum110 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
There's no limit to the size of a well casing, nor a limit to the size of the pump, only a limit to the amount of water there IS to pump. Without a meter there is no way to know with absolute certainty how much is being pumped. Unfortunately well meters is also one step closer to having to pay for every drop of water, even on private wells.
RE: Limits byMaxtodon10 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
think you nailed it right. bigest issue is some cant stand a fact that theres a commodity that isnt taxed. Remember big crazed feeding frenzy of communities over cell phone taxes every little republic county in the state was just quivering to get their portion when it became avalable.

Making meters costing land owners more money to save water is insane like figuring tax on booze is going to fix drunk drivers. seen so much critics on the LCB and Oakrail? think taxes, costs, fees and more creation of new utility going to fix water problem?

like said before no one is pumping 5K gal of water a day out of exempt wells. if anyone has for any period of time they quit as soon as they did get their 1st power bill. and its already very not legal to water things over that 1/4 acre size on property around house.
Meters Do Save Water byClem10 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Remember when meters came to Cle Elum about 10 years ago. Between fixing leaky pipes and metering water consumption fell in half. I would agree though that for municipalities metering is a tax however in the exempt wells I dont see how they can charge per hundred cubic feet unless there is a charge for "over watering".

We probably wouldnt even be in the moratorium if the county had followed the Growth Managment Act and had forced some of the developers like Sapphire Skies to obtain water rights in the same way that Suncadia had. Suncadia spent $9.5 million obtaining water rights for 7,000 acres and Sapphire Skies spent $0 dollars for 10,000 acres dividing the 10,000 acres into hundreds of parcels.

Its not going to be a tax but I guess you could consider it one but I think when this all settles out everyone wanting to drill a well will have to pay somewhere between $500-$5000 for senior water rights. The Yakama Nation for one I dont think is going to standby and allow the well drilling to continue without some restrictions. Obviously some people already see the handwriting on the wall and a number of people have contacted Suncadia about obtaining water rights.

The "land rush" in Kittitas County is over as far as I can see. Some of the complaints at the moratorium meeting came from small landowners who held well permits and who wanted to divide their property. Only one big devloper complained about the moratorium but he also knows where the water is-Suncadia.
impairment byclarifier10 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The issue isn't about impairment. It's about the legal use of water. Clem is right. The subdivision/developments should have been required to obtain an adequate LEGAL water right. Ground water in the valley floor has been shown to be in continuity with surface/river water: Check with the USGS. What's not known are the impacts in the higher elevations.

State law (RCW 90.54.050) provides that when lacking enough information to support sound decisions, ecology may withdraw waters of the state from new appropriations until sufficient information is available. That includes exempt withdrawals.

The hope in negotiations was that a "partial" moratorium could be agreed upon with Kittitas County until more is known in the bedrock areas. Instead it has become politicized. Imagine the difference if sound resource management/growth management decisions had been made in the first place.

So sad for everyone.
RE: impairment byJeremy10 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Yes the issue is impairment. One of the reasons for this made up problem is the potential for senior water right holders to become impaired. See they have to use potential because the state has not found a REAL case of impairment.

Lack of sufficient information is very weak as well. Look at the thousands of well logs the DOE has, pump test reports, yield of all the wells drilled, and studies already have been done in the past. So the statement that not much is known is not correct.

I think you guys will have to come up with some real information and facts. The sad part is that you have a state agency pretending to be lawmakers and change rules because it dosent fit their agenda.
RE: impairment bycountrygirl1110 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
The law, as clarifier pointed out, lacking enough information to support sound decision making ecology may withdraw . . .. For 2 years before the petition in 2007 Ecology told Kittitas County Commissioners to stop the way they were allowing cluster plat hook-ups. Ecology was tracking the way Kittitas County was being sliced and diced. The commisssioners refused to listen.
RE: impairment bywhatatrip10 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
The DOE uses the word potential because there is a potential for senior water rights to be impaired not because the potential is not real but because it is real. In years of abundant water, impairment is not an issue but in years when water is more scarce, then impairment is real. We have seen the rights of water holders to withdraw water being reduced in recent years. All sources of water are connected whether they come from the surface, from the ground or from the sky.

Another aspect of potential is the large number of small lots created in areas that will depend upon an exempt well for water. There are over 6,000 lots that have the "potential" to have an exempt well and thus increase the potential senior water rights will be impaired. The potential is 6,000 lots times 5,000 gallons per day equals 30 million gallons of water a day being withdrawn from the Yakima water basin, at least during the summer when lawn watering is in effect. There is no return to the aquifer with lawn watering, it all evaporates and falls as rain somewhere else on the planet.

Add to that a comprehensive plan that allows uncontrolled creation of small new lots and new lots are being created every week. The numbers of potential new exempt wells are increasing without any control and with total disrequard to the rights of existing land owners and existing water rights. This policy by our BOCC and supported by local developers is a train wreck in progress.
3/4 pump? byJeremy10 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Most of the wells in the Upper County are a little deeper than 50-100 feet. Just as most of the pumps used in the area are larger than 3/4 hrs. The deeper you have to pump from the more expensive.

You can look on the DOEs web site to get a link to see the well logs in the Upper County, it might help in getting more accurate information.
RE: 3/4 pump? bywhatatrip10 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
So what if it costs 2, 3, 4 or 5 times the $65.00 per year. Five times $65 is $325. People paying several hundred thousand dollars for a house on 1/2 arce in a cluster development don't care that it cost $65 or $300 to keep the grass green, the dust down and provide for a fire protection buffer. This all started with developers putting in cluster developments with 14 houses on one exempt well and on 1/2 acre each. Their claim was that one well ;utting out 5,000 gallons per day would support 14 homes. Each house would get 357 gallons of water. Now they want to claim that watering the lawn is not a part of the 5,000 gallons permited with an exempt well. Now they want that same well to pump as much as 5,000 gallons per day for each of 14 homes or a total of 70,000 gallons a day during the summer months. The greedy are just getting more and more greedy.

As for who is making law, I would suggest that the AG, a republican, is making law by "ruling from his desk" when he gave his opinion that watering for cattle is not a part of the 5,000 per day limit on an exempt well. He is saying that it is ok for a cattle yard to pump 500,000 gallons a day on an exempt well. No one in their right mind would suggest that is what the lawmakers had in mind when the law was written in 1945.

So to all the "right to drill" people I say keep it up and there will be an end to exempt wells. This didn't have to happen and there is no one to blame but the Kitittas County Commissioners and their minions and supporters.
Moretorium byJeremy10 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Last time I check the AG is an ELECTED official, the head of DOE is a state employee not elected to his post. He should not be attempting to redefine state rules.

Potential alone is not enough to shut down part of our countys economy, using potential as a reason just means that there is no facts or proof of the supposed impairment. You still have to have facts, the state has not presented any.
RE: Moretorium bywhatatrip10 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
He was elected AG. He is not a law maker. The state legislature makes up the body of lawmakers. He has an opinion just like anyone else. He could very well be wrong. People are appealing his opinion to the judicial branch of government. He does have the authority to issue a legal opinion for the state. He represents the state and the people of the state in legal matters but he doesn't make the law.
The DOE has just as much of a right to their interpretation of the law as the AG does. If the AG and the DOE disagree about the interpretation of a law, the DOE can take the issue to court as can the AG take the issue to court. The DOE is not redefining the law. The law speaks for itself. There just happens to be a difference of opinion as to what the law means.

My opinion is that if there is no restriction on cattle watering and lawn watering, why would there be a limit on how much a household could use. The lawmakers of the time thought 5,000 per household was enough to not hurt water rights holders but much more intensive uses of water like cattle feed lots and lawn watering was not enough to limit the amount of water withdrawn defies logic. The only logical explanation is that any exempt well could use 5,000 gallons per day since that is not a large amount of water given the small numbers of people who would rely on an exempt well. Here is the law as written:

"EXCEPT, HOWEVER, That any withdrawal of public ground waters for stock-watering purposes, or for the watering of a lawn or of a noncommercial garden not exceeding one-half acre in area, or for single or group domestic uses in an amount not exceeding five thousand gallons a day...".

I would say the limit is 5,000 per well as stated in the law. I say that because in the next sentence it states

"PROVIDED, HOWEVER, That the department from time to time may require the person or agency making any such small withdrawal to furnish information as to the means for and the quantity of that withdrawal:"

They are clearly saying such a "small withdrawl" refering to 5,000 not 500,000 gallons as would be used in a cattle feed lot. 5,000 gallons is also just about the rigth amount of water needed to keep 1/2 acre of grass green during the summer.

It continues "PROVIDED, FURTHER, That at the option of the party making withdrawals of ground waters of the state not exceeding five thousand gallons per day,"

There is no question in my mind that the legislature of 1945 intended the limit be 5,000 gallons and those who have a differing opinnion are "making new law" without legislative credentials.
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